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  #41  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
It's a list of targets, and would certainly help attackers prioritize targets. I view what they have done as an attack against the United States so yes, I advocate them being shut down. I draw the line short of assassination though. Assange in reality is just a mouthpiece anyway.
Do you think your Government should be bound by its laws and its constitution? If no, then any discussion would be pointless, obviously. If yes, then based on what law do you want your government to 'shut down' foreign news organisations? Based on what law do you want to prosecute a foreign journalist or political activist? And how would you technically and practically shut down an organization like Wikileaks? And how do you want to prosecute the NY Times and Fox News for participating in the 'attack against the United States' by spreading the leaked information? And, finally, how could you make sure, that in attempting to achieve all this, the world still sees any difference between how Iran and China treat political opposition and violate the freedom of the press and the way you propose to take action against Wikileaks?

I ask out of honest curiosity.

Last edited by Botany Bay : 12-08-2010 at 10:59 AM.
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  #42  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:58 AM
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You could prosecute them in violation of the Espionage act.
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  #43  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:01 AM
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Also, a common misconception is that the constitution somehow applies. The constitution is a framework for the structure of American government, and it's relation to the citizens. The rights and guarantees expressed in it are a guarantee to the citizens of the country. Those rights do not apply to matters of foreign policy.

And the NY Times and Fox news did not recreate the infrastructure list.
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  #44  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:01 AM
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I'm no fan of some of these security contractors. It's not an either/or proposition.
We had all this plenty of years ago with Ellsberg and the Pentagon papers, it's just history repeating. I side with the underdog who pisses at the leg of the big boy, even if it stinks.

On a serious note, there are more integer transparency activists but they play in th peanut realm. Once you are out of there you automatically mess up to some degree. I hope that they will continue to improve their methods, I hope that next time the US government, realizing that they can't prevent the leak, helps them to erase dangerous information and I hope that the pseudo-progressive in the oval office learns the main lesson: don't just talk about transparency Mr.Obama but actually be more transparent. Otherwise folks will force it.


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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
That is a good question - and I doubt anyone here has the answer.

However, it does not alleviate or give Wikileaks a free pass to start putting out a flood of information unrelated to that question that has it's own set of potential headaches and security issues. They take no responsibility for their actions and what might happen afterwards, and if they want to do that - fine. But they should not be so staggeringly stupid as to think everyone will fawn over them as 'heroes' for doing it.
Despite their flaws I trust them more than I trust the massive data-collecting of governments and companies because, guess what, they share what they collect.
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  #45  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
If NASA said no to the project, then why does the Air Force want the project?

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...c=GetTRDoc.pdf
The Military has 40 Billion dollar Black Budget...While NASA's is 4 Billion.
NASA waste quite of bit it's budget with probes and certain experiments
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  #46  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
Also, a common misconception is that the constitution somehow applies. The constitution is a framework for the structure of American government, and it's relation to the citizens. The rights and guarantees expressed in it are a guarantee to the citizens of the country. Those rights do not apply to matters of foreign policy.

And the NY Times and Fox news did not recreate the infrastructure list.
That's interesting, so in your opinion in foreign policy you can do all the ugly sh*t which you are forbidden to do at home, law of the jungle and so on.

And yet the Declaration of Independence says that "all men are created equal [and] endowed [...] with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" and not just the American men.
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  #47  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:11 AM
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That's interesting, so in your opinion in foreign policy you can do all the ugly sh*t which you are forbidden to do at home, law of the jungle and so on.

And yet the Declaration of Independence says that "all men [...] created equal [and] endowed [...] with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" and not just the American men.
I was asked how this relates to the constitution, the simple answer is it doesn't at all.
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  #48  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:12 AM
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Despite their flaws I trust them more than I trust the massive data-collecting of governments and companies because, guess what, they share what they collect.
Well I'm not going to argue with your right to decide to trust them because it's of course yours to do.

However, I do not believe they have the right to share everything that they have in their possession simply because they do have it. Some of it should likely have been gone over first for it's content, been discussed via the Governments or Agencies involved or simply witheld in full because of it's content.

There will be things that should be exposed, I don't doubt that at all - but not literally everything and not while trying to claim none of it could have negative consequences.
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  #49  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:12 AM
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That's interesting, so in your opinion in foreign policy you can do all the ugly sh*t which you are forbidden to do at home, law of the jungle and so on.

And yet the Declaration of Independence says that "all men [are] created equal [and] endowed [...] with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" and not just the American men.
Every nation on Earth does nasty stuff, not just the US. There is a certain law of the jungle aspect to it. The world is a dangerous place
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  #50  
Old 12-08-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
The Military has 40 Billion dollar Black Budget...While NASA's is 4 Billion.
NASA waste quite of bit it's budget with probes and certain experiments
Out of mild curiosity - I thought the idea of black budgets was that their value was not known, because it essentially had none that showed up anywhere.
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