[Akula2ssn]

Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim

At that time, they didn't know about the Jellyfish. They certainly didn't know NuSpock would be able to fly it either. For all they knew, the red matter device was just that, a device. They didn't know about the Jellyfish until they actually found it. And they didn't know it was future Vulcan tech until it recognized NuSpock's voice. So whether or not they needed a pilot would never have even been discussed prior to beaming over to the Narada.

I was about to agree on them not knowing about the Jellyfish. But then I was thinking about the mind meld with Spock Prime. So we can say that at least Kirk knew of its existence and that when Spock Prime was captured, that the Jellyfish came into the possession of Nero. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that it was still on the Narada. As far as piloting it, well...Fly? Yes. Land?...

It's kind of one of those things about Star Trek ships. There's so much computer control on those things that you can always take the convenient, albeit not so elegant approach, and say that you don't need to be a certified pilot to do a lot of the basic stuff like turning and pitching etc.

[starwarsrcks]

Dr McCoy was a vital part of TOS and I want more of him as well I agree

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Perhaps they didn't feel that she was suited to what was essentially a combat mission.

[Akula2ssn]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

Perhaps they didn't feel that she was suited to what was essentially a combat mission.

The only problem I have with that is considering she coming right out of the academy just as Kirk, she's probably just as competent as Kirk was in terms of training received. In other words they probably are basically trained.

However, if we want to take a look at Uhura as we knew her in TOS and assume that much of her skill set is still the same, then her presence on the Enterprise would have been extremely important. In the movie, she's shown as studying xenolinguistics. Which is fine. But in TOS we see that she has a real talent for working with the communications equipment on the ship and finding ways of getting signals through extreme interference. In a way her specialty as we see in TOS is closer to an Operations Specialist in the Coast Guard which is a tactical command control and communications rating.

[horatio]

Originally Posted by kevin

However, could Uhura have piloted the Jellyfish? Need Spock for that.

Plus, sending her over means Kirk and Spock can't work together to solve the problem - which is the main underlying story point of them going over.

Indeed. I kinda dislike these technical discussions which totally ignore the dramatic core.

Originally Posted by Akula2ssn

The only problem I have with that is considering she coming right out of the academy just as Kirk, she's probably just as competent as Kirk was in terms of training received. In other words they probably are basically trained.

However, if we want to take a look at Uhura as we knew her in TOS and assume that much of her skill set is still the same, then her presence on the Enterprise would have been extremely important. In the movie, she's shown as studying xenolinguistics. Which is fine. But in TOS we see that she has a real talent for working with the communications equipment on the ship and finding ways of getting signals through extreme interference. In a way her specialty as we see in TOS is closer to an Operations Specialist in the Coast Guard which is a tactical command control and communications rating.

I agree and I like Uhura's change from technical-organisational work to linguistic skills à la Hoshi.
Let's be honest, Uhura, Chekov and Sulu's posts weren't that well portrayed in TOS. Only the movies started to show their skills.

[Akula2ssn]

Originally Posted by horatio

Let's be honest, Uhura, Chekov and Sulu's posts weren't that well portrayed in TOS. Only the movies started to show their skills.

Which really shows when you consider that any one of those characters could be completely absent from entire episodes and their absence wouldn't have been noticed.

[horatio]

Which brings us back to the question underlying the topic of the thread, how much spotlight should the "minor major" characters get? I think it's great that The Four get more time and are better drawn out than during the first incarnation of TOS but I also think that The Three should still be special.
The balance in ST09 was overall fine in my opinion.

[kevin]

I think - albeit with the successful boosting of Uhura - that the central trio should remain that.

It's preferable if the movies can give each of the minor characters a specific 'moment' of their own in each film (much as the last film did, and a couple of others along the way) just to remind us why they are there and what they bring to the ship.............but I'm hardly going to refrain from noting that giving everyone decent screen time doesn't always work and if it's not fully possible, then skip the minor characters and concentrate on the primary ones. I'm not about to pretend I'm waiting on a movie all about Chekov............

The advantage of TOS (in series and both universe movie form) is that you have a relatively clear distinction between Primary and Secondary roles and so half the work is done for them.

In TNG the muddier lines from having 6/7/8 characters with more equal time in the series than the previous attention than their TOS counterparts got meant they had to decide on Primary/Secondary split once the movies got up and running.

I'm not entirely convinced they made the best call outwith the rather obvious Picard.

[horatio]

I disagree, Picard, Riker and Data, the three highest-ranking officers, are the obvious main characters. As Frakes directed Riker became a minor character and only Picard and Data remained.
Let's also not exaggerate Picard's problems. In GEN and FC he was more or less the good ol' Picard, in INS something started to boil but he was still fine and only in NEM he really lost it.

[Pauln6]

Originally Posted by Akula2ssn

I was actually rather disappointed by how little we saw McCoy in the film. Especially when you consider that in many ways, the original series and the 6 movies following it were very much about the three of them.

One thing that I always found rather disconcerting was how once the classic Star Trek went into full production, female members of the landing party were never armed as far as I can recall. Unlike in the first pilot episode when they were armed.

Being assigned to a security division myself and having a few female members in that division, bullsh*t them not being armed. There's a tendency that I've noticed where women are much better shots than men.

It wasn't always the case - in City on the Edge of Forever, I think Uhura was armed and placed in charge of an all-male security team; and I think the judo-trained Yeoman Ross was armed. Personally, I think Rand must have been a crack shot if she could make piping hot coffee with a hand phaser. She obviously made the men feel inferior so they never let her near the weapons locker normally. Actually, I'm even writing a little post TMP story and I'm going to acknowledge Rand as a crack shot somewhere in there!

Originally Posted by kevin

I'm hoping for more McCoy in the sequel. Urban was excellent.

That said, personally, I prefer the finale focused on Kirk and Spock. That was one of the main lines through the film so I think it was appropriate to keep things just the two of them. I feel the inclusion of others would have been a distraction. I don't think it would have meant less satisfying in terms of how the finale played out, but nor do I see an explicit need for those characters to be there either.

Perhaps McCoy.

Although, if they wanted to increase the TOS-ness, they could have beamed over with the troika and some redshirts, have them get ambushed and the red-shirts killed off, and then go ahead and then have to go and improvise an escape as they did in the film. That could have worked as well maybe

I agree that the main focus of this new franchise should be Kirk and Spock, with McCoy and Uhura as main support. In a two-hour movie there isn't time to do justice to the others and I agree that trying to give them one significant scene is a good trade-off. However, I think it's wrong to suggest that that we can only enjoy the Kirk / Spock dynamic if they are on their own. Going across to the Narada alone was a howlingly bad tactical decision and if that's what it takes to showcase their relationship I'd rather watch Rand making that coffee with her phaser. The supporting cast can support in the background just as well - they don't need to dominate the screen or have lines - they do this on the bridge and they can do it off the bridge too. Plus a very important part of the Kirk / Spock dynamic is the different ways they inspire the crew. This is why I think we should probably have had Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, and two redshirts (one male, one female) in the landing party.

I think the 'need' for the other characters is that this isn't the sixties and Shatner isn't stealing everybody else's lines. Modern audiences enjoy ensembles and care about the supporting characters more than the redshirts, which adds dramatic tension if you place them in peril (maybe I'm biased because I prefer the early more ensemble TOS episodes). Further, a traditionalist view will keep the new version mired in sexism and I'm strongly against that.

I really want Rand to be brought into the next movie as a security-trained yeoman/bodyguard for Kirk because of the comic potential that could entail (in her one big scene) and because the franchise is desperate for a combat trained female character (in addition to Uhura - did Galaxy Quest teach them nothing?). I'm not suggesting that she should be a cigar-chomping Starbuck clone but I think they can do a lot better for the chicks!