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  #11  
Old 03-17-2008, 07:34 AM
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Hokiein-

On the admiral I agree. But look at Troi, not wearing a uniform. I mean would you feel comfy telling all your bad stuff to soemone in a tight bunny suit??

And Dr. Crusher, she was allways on the verge of breaking down and/or crying in many episodes. Is this the behavior of a seasoned Starfleet officer?

Don't get me started on many of the female guest stars.
I don't think that showing women crying or losing it easier than their male counterparts is sexist. In fact, it's rather realistic. Because that's usually the way it is in real life, whether women are willing to admit it or not. And showing women being just as though and closed-up as men would only make them too masculine. Take Janeway for example: what I loved about her is that despite the fact that she could easily intimidate some of the male characters, we still saw her feminine side and we still saw her almost come to tears a few times.

But Troi... yeah, she was TNG's eyecandy (even though she didn't even have the body to wear those tight outfits) although maybe to a lesser extent than Seven and T'Pol were for Voy and Ent. Maybe they should have had a man as the ship's counselor... That would have been interesting...
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:00 AM
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Lady-

I understand what you are saying. But I doubt a seasoned offier would break down in from of her fellow offciers.

I'm not saying "no emotions for anyone." Just like Picard going by himself to cry, or sharing with Troi, a therapist aand the person who makes sure the Capt. is ok. Picard wouldn't cry infront of the bridge crew.

Janeway, when she needeed a moment did her "emotionalism" by herself, which I can totlally see happening. Like Picard, she did it in private.

I would have accepted Troi more if, even in her office working, she wasn't "all dolled up" and in soemthing more appropriate for a threaputic setting.

I'd like to see a Kilingon ship's coucellor, "Lt. Bobbo, you show real wakness by coing in here and saying you miss your dead mother!! What kind of slime devil are you??!!!" LOL
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:41 AM
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I don't think that showing women crying or losing it easier than their male counterparts is sexist. In fact, it's rather realistic. Because that's usually the way it is in real life, whether women are willing to admit it or not. And showing women being just as though and closed-up as men would only make them too masculine. Take Janeway for example: what I loved about her is that despite the fact that she could easily intimidate some of the male characters, we still saw her feminine side and we still saw her almost come to tears a few times.

But Troi... yeah, she was TNG's eyecandy (even though she didn't even have the body to wear those tight outfits) although maybe to a lesser extent than Seven and T'Pol were for Voy and Ent. Maybe they should have had a man as the ship's counselor... That would have been interesting...
women will be women and men will be men.
In each case there are certain traits which...are some times just generally true to the sex. As long as they don't do this in every woman and every man...then it's showing the diversity we have today.
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:50 AM
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Back in the 60's with TOS, yes. It was as sexist as that era itself was, although it worked hard to break down barriers from the very start.

I think the problem with Trek, in regaurds to women, is that it portrays women as being highly conformist. I think the reason 7 of 9 is seen as a step forward was that she grew up outside the Federation, and thus had a different viewpoint than those "programmed" by the standard morality. She was free to think otherwise, once freed from the group mind of the Borg collective.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:54 AM
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So you think Troi all "dolled up" like that made a good therapist?

I guess my point is we didn't see the male charaters do the emotinal, crying thing that people in real life do.
Well, I think the only time she was "dolled up" was when she wore that blue dress. Other than that, the jumpsuits were hardly flattering to Marina. Besides, the goal was to make the Counselor more approachable and, for what it's worth, that's what Gene wanted.

Crusher didn't cry all that often. She whined from time to time, but she was--more often than not--an incredibly competent doctor who even went off to head up Starfleet Medical. Hell, Picard showed more teary-eyed emotion over the years than Crusher did.
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:56 AM
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I'm not sure if it was sexist...That's just the way it was back then. The 70's were just kinda dark when it came to women...

I will definitely agree that in the 70's women did pretty much what they were told but that's to be expected especially in a country like America where the whole....family thing was pretty strict back then and women were just starting to get used to working and making money from themselves...
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  #17  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:56 AM
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Red-

I suggest you should go back and look at TNG pics or episodes form seasons 2-6 with Troi, those outfits are anything but professional therapist. Well GR had only one thing on his mind most of the time and it wasn't Bermuda....lol...

But Crusher should have not done such things publically. In private, totally diffrent.
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  #18  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:59 AM
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Saquist-

Were you around in the 70's? (No, not meant as a cut.)

It was a liberating time for most young women. Alot of hope in the air of the ERA being ratified. The starting of women in the professional workplace as people of power. But it was the start of what we have now, and I hope will continue to grow into equality between genders.
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  #19  
Old 03-17-2008, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RedShirtWalking View Post
Well, I think the only time she was "dolled up" was when she wore that blue dress. Other than that, the jumpsuits were hardly flattering to Marina. Besides, the goal was to make the Counselor more approachable and, for what it's worth, that's what Gene wanted.

Crusher didn't cry all that often. She whined from time to time, but she was--more often than not--an incredibly competent doctor who even went off to head up Starfleet Medical. Hell, Picard showed more teary-eyed emotion over the years than Crusher did.
I concur Crusher only got emotionl about Wesley. I'm glad they didnt' play that card too often. i don't recall her crying at all.


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Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
Saquist-

Were you around in the 70's? (No, not meant as a cut.)

It was a liberating time for most young women. Alot of hope in the air of the ERA being ratified. The starting of women in the professional workplace as people of power. But it was the start of what we have now, and I hope will continue to grow into equality between genders.
I'm not old enough.
I know the 70's were about sex and everyone having it.

It would be nice if women today didn't have to worry about getting paid lesser than men or sexual harasment but I think it's gotten much better with room to improve.
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  #20  
Old 03-17-2008, 09:11 AM
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Red-

I suggest you should go back and look at TNG pics or episodes form seasons 2-6 with Troi, those outfits are anything but professional therapist. Well GR had only one thing on his mind most of the time and it wasn't Bermuda....lol...

But Crusher should have not done such things publically. In private, totally diffrent.
I get what you're saying, Zardoz...but that's still not sexist. for the first five and a half seasons, no she didn't wear a standard duty uniform, but she wasn't wearing provocative outfits either. Even the infamous blue dress didn't show am amazing amount of cleavage. She wore casual clothing but and still maintaned a sense of femininity while still being an absolute professional. It wasn't cheesecake and it certainly wasn't Seven or T'Pol. Did it make sense? Probably not, but it's Hollywood. It definitely wasn't sexist, though.

Crusher's expression of emotion isn't sexist, either. Whether it's public or private (or right or wrong) is a separate debate, I think. Crusher was also an amazingly brilliant single mom, which is a separate commentary entirely. (That never gets brought up and I think it's a pretty significant aspect of the Crusher character.)

Cheers...
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