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  #1  
Old 03-15-2008, 10:48 PM
Berengarius7 Berengarius7 is offline
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Default True Friendship.

Spock and Kirk, Kirk and McCoy. These relationships were intense. They are the kind of friends who would die for one another (and i think they may have once or twice.) These kind of friendships aren't built overnight. They have to have been forged in some sort of crucible of danger and dire trouble. At what points in time did Kirk have time to develop such strong friendships with Spock and McCoy? Did it all happen aboard the Enterprise? I don't think it could have. They all had to have known each other before that. It just had to be. You just don't walk over burning coals for a mere aquaintance. Kirk and Spock and McCoy are like blood brothers. Iv'e had one friend like that in my lifetime and it was because we went through hell together and we both came out the other side relatively intact. They trust one antother implicitly and that takes some doing. I'd like to know what cemented that friendship. That's the truly unique thing about TOS that none of the other series have.
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Old 03-15-2008, 10:52 PM
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You know Bengarius, maybe that's what this new film will focus on. It'd be a great plot for the film. How these three became 'blood-brothers' as you put it. Yes, I agree, it had to happen before they served on the Enterprise together. It will be interesting to see if that's what this movie covers and you're right, going through hell together is how friendships of that magnitude come to be. Hopefully, if we're all lucky enough, we'll have a friendship like that in our lives, cause you see it, when I watch the Trek movies I-VI, I see my own friendships in that trio of characters. There are people I'd walk over hot coals for, there are people I care for as these three care for eachother.
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Old 03-15-2008, 10:56 PM
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TOS and DS9 had the best character relationships because special emphasis was placed on how they would interact with each other.

TOS had three main characters.

Bones, Spock and Kirk. The rest were just supporting roles in the series. Each guy brought something different. Kirk relied on cunning and instinct. Spock was the intellectual and logical personality. Bones was the emotion and heart. A great relationship.

With DS9 each character was designed to interact with others. Sisko with Kira, Sisko with Jake, Sisko with Dax, Quark with Odo, O'Brien with Keiko, Sisko with Dukat etc...Then they developed further relationships, Kira with Odo, Kira with Dukat, Worf with Dax, Bashir with O'Brien, Quark with Rom, Nog with Rom, Nog with Jake, Rom with Leeta and so on....

It allowed the characters to be developed in depth.

When creating characters, a writer should ALWAYS have in mind how they will interact with each other. They cannot be created as stand-alone personalities.

TNG had good stories and decent characters, but they suffered by not interacting with each other enough. Data and Geordi were friends. Picard was a mentor to Data....and that's pretty much it. Everything else was not developed in depth.

Again with VOY. Seven interacted with Janeway. Paris with Torres. EMH with Seven. Those were the most interesting parts of the show IMO. But the rest of the characters seemed stunted. More could have been done, but it wasn't. They retreated to TNG style character isolation.
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:20 PM
Berengarius7 Berengarius7 is offline
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I'm saying that it's very, very important for that three way relationship to be established in Star Trek XI. It doesn't really matter if the ship doesn't look exactly the same, or if the uniforms aren't exacty right, or if they use the wrong type of tricorders, but if that relationship and rappor between Kirk, Spock and McCoy isn't there, then it's all for naught. Because that's what made it good and that's what made it great and why it spawned so many sequels and movies and why people remember it at all. It's also why it played on cable stations like Spike and G-4 instead of following The Beverly Hillbillies on Nick At Night, because it wasn't just another archaic television show, it was a visionary science fiction masterpiece.
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:24 PM
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Canon is that they were not together before....I suspect (or, should I say hope?) that this movie will give us that MOMENT when Spock and Kirk realized they were bound together. McCoy being an old and loved friend of Kirk's is easier to establish because there is less canon information about his life before. I think we watched Spock and McCoy come to appreciate each other over the series, so don't think anything more is needed there....I just think the story lacks a point at which Kirk and Spock realized that they would sacrifice themselves for the other...
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:59 PM
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The good news about canon: all three of their early histories are not filled in detail. There is plenty of room for creativity in establishing their relationships in this particular time frame -- my money's on that is why they chose to set this new film in that 'gray area' of their lives. This 'era' puts the entire classic crew at their fingertips while giving the writers the greatest storytelling flexibility and yet plenty of canon off which to bound their concepts and characters.

Put it this way: most everyone posting here wishes for a great story centered on these two/three characters. Let's say Orci, Kurtzman and Abrams deliver just that... a really superb, exciting, involving story. If it rubs up some friction against a few existing-but-sketchy points in canon... will anyone really mind? I wouldn't. Bring on the great troica beginnings!
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:05 PM
Berengarius7 Berengarius7 is offline
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I intend to hope for the best. I guess that's all anyone can do. It's all in the filmmakers hands. May the wind be at their backs, and their paths straight.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:51 AM
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Bengarius-

A great opening for this thread!

I think some like Kirk, McCoy may have known each other on another assignment. Kirk may have known Spock by reputation.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:30 PM
Berengarius7 Berengarius7 is offline
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That assumption is totally logical Zardoz. How many half-vulcan, half-human science officers were there in Starfleet at that time? Considering who the vulcans are and how they believed, i'm going to say one. Not that their weren't plenty of Vulcans in Starfleet, the U.S.S. Valiant was entirely crewed by Vulcans (and also lost in the line of duty), but Spock was one of a kind. I wonder what the Vulcans thought of Sarek taking a human wife? That must have been a shock to their senses. Nonetheless I believe your guess is more than likely dead on accurate. I also believe Kirk knew McCoy before their assignment to the Enterprise, and i'd lay even money that Kirk probably requested McCoy as his cheif surgeon. He was probably very impressed by the good doctor's abilities and bedside manner, not to mention he was damn good company and tended to keep illegal Romulan Ale in his bag for "medicinal purposes".
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Old 03-18-2008, 03:39 AM
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Bengarius-

If one belives TOS, Vulcans still, outside of Spock, stay to their own Starfleet vessels (The Intrepid-TOS).

I am sure the Vulcans had some distain for Sarek's choice of wife.

I belive maybe Kirk/McCoy knew each other from another assignment, or soemthing before to lay a groundwork for the realtionship they had on TOS.
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