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  #21  
Old 03-15-2008, 06:26 PM
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Exactly, you wouldn't even know it until a situation arose that would show the person's significant other or through some discussion of perhaps their life and it may not even come up then. It wouldn't be an issue, it just is and it would present itself as such.
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Old 03-15-2008, 06:32 PM
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I just thought of this, on Battlestar Galactica, the new one, the movie Razor, the captain was in a homosexual relationship with an advisor. Well the advisor was a Cylon, but she didn't know. Anyway, they didn't make a big deal of it, they just showed them greet each other in front of the crew and it was obvious they were involved and the crew didn't seem to even think anything strange of it. Even afterwards the major issue for the crew was this person was using the relationship with the Captain for perks, to further her career at least that's how they saw it. The issue of homosexuality was never addressed, it was just shown. Look there it is, two people of the same sex in a relationship.

I thought that was handled well, they could try something like that in Trek with either men or women.
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  #23  
Old 03-15-2008, 06:33 PM
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King, thanks for beating me to the obvious answer. Someone brought up earlier that Hawk from First Contact was mentioned as possibly being gay in the novelization. If they had continued the character, and simply brought it up by his sending a message home to his partner or something like that, it would have been okay...

I don't think, in Trek's universe, they would need to treat it in an overt way. (That's more Torchwood's schtick, anyway.) If it were just implied, that would probably speak volumes, and lay this discussion to rest.

Look guys, to be perfectly honest, I'm a bi male, and I'm getting pretty sick of watching my favorite science fiction universe series after series, movie after movie, and feeling utterly ignored. Or worse, deliberately left out. It's like Paramount and Star Trek as put up a sign that reads, "Gays need not apply." on the Trek soundstage doors. Frankly, it sucks! To see a vision of the future like this, and realize that you, and people like you are not considered worthy to be a part of it? That you've all become strangely "invisible" in this hypothetical future?

It's insulting.
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Old 03-15-2008, 06:39 PM
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Livingston,
I wasn't aiming that comment at you specifically, it was more of a generalized post.

The Battlestar Galactica thing just reinforces what I was saying earlier: BG has had gay characters, Firefly has had bi characters, Torchwood and Dr. Who have had gay characters, but Star Trek hasn't. Nada. Zip. Zero. The big goose egg.

Which begs the question: Trek used to push the social envelope regularly. But now... is it losing it's edge? Has it become a weak, watered down shadow of its former self? Has Trek become a coward in the kinds of stories it can tell?
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2008, 06:46 PM
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it is, fan, the sad thing is it's about money. They won't go for a storyline like this cause they fear it's going to make a significant portion of the audience uncomfortable. I went to see Oliver Stone's Alexander, which I liked alot, thought it was very well done. And I remember this guy coming out fuming, he was really pissed. He came up to me and some friends and started telling us how the movie showed guys 'swapping spit' as he put it. I guess he and alot of others expected a movie like Gladiator, which is equally good, I think, another great movie but it's a different animal, the only similarity between Alexander and Gladiator is that they take place in the ancient world, but I'm getting off topic. Anyway in Alexander, many were expecting sword fighting, conquering cities, Troy sorts of sword wielding masculine stuff, but that's not what the movie was about.

With Trek, I think it's the same to a degree. Many want just a good action movie, they wanna see a good adventure story and if they suddenly see a homosexual couple in it, it's going to make some uncomfortable and cause of this I think if they ever shot anything like that, it'd end up on the cutting room floor as with what happened with Hawk, cause it would alienate part of the audience and Paramount would lose money. Homosexuality doesn't sell, especially in action/scifi movies which Star Trek movies are catagorized into. It's sad, but that's why they'll probably cut any references to homosexuality that may be in there, but what do I know, maybe Abrams will put something in this new movie, sooner or later, it'll be there, I think anyway.
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Old 03-15-2008, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanWriter45 View Post
Livingston,
I wasn't aiming that comment at you specifically, it was more of a generalized post.

The Battlestar Galactica thing just reinforces what I was saying earlier: BG has had gay characters, Firefly has had bi characters, Torchwood and Dr. Who have had gay characters, but Star Trek hasn't. Nada. Zip. Zero. The big goose egg.

Which begs the question: Trek used to push the social envelope regularly. But now... is it losing it's edge? Has it become a weak, watered down shadow of its former self? Has Trek become a coward in the kinds of stories it can tell?
Lately, I'd say your right. Enterprise certainly showed this. Where were the thought provoking great episodes that all the other series had in droves? This is off the topic of the thread, but Trek has lost it's edge I think. Enterprise had a lot to do with that.
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Old 03-15-2008, 06:55 PM
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If I was creative director of Star Trek, a gay relationship would be included in a future series, and I HRH personally would plan out the whole relationship arc.

I feel strongly that it would need to be a relationship between two men, because I think today's society places a greater taboo on a male/male gay relationship than a female/female gay relationship.
  #28  
Old 03-15-2008, 07:15 PM
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It definitely does. Like I mentioned with Razor before, the relationship was between two women, in DS9 where Jadzia and the woman were involved, again two women. To have two men, it is more taboo and I think really throws the issue out there. As far as a relationship between two women, from a male perspective, I'll say, cause well I'm a male, there is a cushion there, a safety net, you're always going to have men in the audience who look at it and say, okay two attractive women in a relationship, I can live with that. That's going to wreck the issue and the whole point, so I think King's right, it'd have to be two men, it would really force an audience to confront homosexuality without having that safety net there.

That's exactly what Alexander did. Throughout it I can remember a great many uncomfortable sighs and people shifting about in the theatre during that one. If it were about Cleopatra and her priestess lover, it probably would've been a different story at least from the male perspective. Actually I just threw that in there, I don't know if Cleopatra was bi or not.

Now we just need a movie about Catherine the Great! I'd probably skip that one myself.
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2008, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanWriter45 View Post
Look guys, to be perfectly honest, I'm a bi male, and I'm getting pretty sick of watching my favorite science fiction universe series after series, movie after movie, and feeling utterly ignored. Or worse, deliberately left out.
I think Garak came close to bisexuality. Since WOK had the first black captain and TVH had the first female captain... why not have a gay captain for a change? Or perhaps Esteban was, since the seats were pink
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
I think Garak came close to bisexuality. Since WOK had the first black captain and TVH had the first female captain... why not have a gay captain for a change? Or perhaps Esteban was, since the seats were pink
The thing that pissed me off about Captain Esteban was that the Federation reacted to his death and the destruction of his crew with relative apathy. If that wasn't bad enough, the Klingon ambassador in Star Trek IV didn't even deny it and had the nerve to complain about KIRK killing the same Klingon who killed A) the entire crew of the Starship GRISSOM and B) Kirk's son.

Last edited by HRH The KING : 03-15-2008 at 08:51 PM. Reason: I wrote "Reliant" instead of "Grissom"
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