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  #31  
Old 07-01-2010, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
After the 2269 outbreak of Tellarite syphilis allegedly caused by a famous century human Starfleet captain condoms were included in away kits.
Hey, the military carry them in their kit today. Maybe not a far-out suggestion overall!
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  #32  
Old 07-01-2010, 01:59 PM
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Or mini tractor beam emitters that keep everything away from the destination...
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  #33  
Old 07-10-2010, 12:56 AM
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Sounds like quite a lot of prepping before anything good happens........
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  #34  
Old 07-10-2010, 08:28 AM
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I think that Valeris meant well, but she was just illogical and was influenced by the wrong people. I guess it goes to show that even Vulcans can be racist and hold grudges. Man...was Spock sure upset when he found out it was Valeris who committed the crime.

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  #35  
Old 07-10-2010, 09:04 AM
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She had her ears "bobbed" and later stared in a series from HBO. What a fall from serving in Star Fleet!
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  #36  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:12 AM
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I think that Valeris meant well, but she was just illogical and was influenced by the wrong people. I guess it goes to show that even Vulcans can be racist and hold grudges. Man...was Spock sure upset when he found out it was Valeris who committed the crime.
I think that TUC was more complicated in this respect.

KIRK: Let them die!
CHEKOV: Guess who is coming to dinner.

These guys are racists, they have fought against Klingons all their life and now they even have to invite these brutes to dinner!

Spock is the only one who doesn't seem to be prejudiced, but does he do the logical thing when he sents Kirk on this peace mission? Hardly, it is a leap of faith and he continues to follow his heart when he goes to Romulus in the next century. When Kirk leaves his hate for the Klingons behind he also makes a leap of faith, he doesn't know whether they will behave nicely and the scarcely-sketched fictional Trek history between TUC and TNG shows (Yesterday's Enterprise) that Klingon-Federation peace is quite fragile.
The hardliners on the other hand have a good point, why not crush your enemy when he is weak? You could claim that the military on both sides simply wants to grab power but you could also easily claim that they act in the best interest of their peoples.

So I think that the movie neatly showed that war can be rational whereas peace requires trust and faith (if you don't believe me you might believe this dude: http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/e...nn-lecture.pdf).


About Spock being upset, he wasn't just upset, he raped her. And while you can rationalize it with some Vulcan "needs of the many" ethics his disappointment and anger are pretty clear in this scene, he doesn't just do the "logical" thing.


Good guys and bad guys aren't so clearly distinguishable and that's why this movie rocks.
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  #37  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:27 AM
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One of the problem with TUC however is in fact the sudden explosion of racism within the entire crew (and apparently everywhere else in the Federation) that erupts in the wake of a peace proposition.

All of a sudden everyone is out-and-out racist (at least Nichelle Nichols had the class to point blank refuse to utter one of Meyer's lines which he had to give to someone else to say in the end and Brock Peters was also uncomfortable with some lines as well) spouting dialogue to that effect.

Lord forbid we should have any reminder that at one time 'there was no place for it on my ship' when we were on TOS. While a reason can be extrapolated for Kirk (via David's murder) that at least can give some plausibility to Kirk's feelings, to extend it to the whole crew pushes it.

It's exactly why TUC is incomplete and politically simplistic - because it has to carry out such a drastic recharacterisation of the Enterprise crew to make it's primary story point work.
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Last edited by kevin : 07-10-2010 at 11:33 AM.
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  #38  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:39 AM
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I am glad the Nichols didn't have any racist line and I think that Chekov's lines remained comical enough to be unproblematic and Kirk's hate for Klingons was pretty natural after TSFS. Scotty has always been pretty outspoken about how he feels about Klingons.
I don't think that anybody in the crew besides Kirk was aggressively racist, they just didn't like these stinking folks who don't use fork and knife at their dinner table. Neither would I.
Isn't this a bit more honest and realistic than Roddenberryian political correctness? Trying to make peace with somebody you like is easy, leaving your hate and your prejudices behind is much harder.

But I think that you are right insofar as Meyer's contrasts between dark and bright were too sharp and felt a bit involuntarily comical because of this.
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  #39  
Old 07-10-2010, 11:48 AM
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The fairly liberal sprinkling of lines across most of the characters certainly does imply that they all felt basically the same about things.

I agree that in the long run it may be considered more honest, but once again in actual execution it causes us to veer from one tonal extreme to the other (let's not forget that in TFF just previously Kirk's life had actually been saved by the assistance of a Klingon and his crew and the Klingons were aboard the Enterprise at the end of that film peaceably. Chekov was even impressed by the Klingon woman's 'wonderful arms'!) so where that may have indicated room for a thaw in relations we suddenly shift back to the extreme of 'Let them die'.

It's this continual tonal see-saw effect (or, as you said the contrasts 'were too sharp') that weakens what they were attempting.

It's fine to do a story about overcoming one's fears and reservations for the greater good - but it could have been done less jarringly from previous film's events.
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  #40  
Old 07-10-2010, 12:07 PM
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Good point about TFF ... but I'd rather like to discount the plot as a whiskey campfire dream.

I like stories, even highly flawed ones, which don't show the statical advantages and features of the better Trek future but rather the dynamism of progress. There are also in-between types, the futuristic present is statically bright but there are ghosts from the past so the dynamism is implied, there was a time when we changed.
Khan or the Third World War / Eugenics Wars would fit into this last category. You mentioned Balance of Terror and Stiles is also a bit of an "extinct specimen", a reminder from the past that humans are prone to hate their archenemy deeply.

The night is darkest just before the dawn, it worked in The Dark Knight, it has worked in Trek and I'd like to see more of this stuff.

By the way, didn't DS9 excel precisely when it did with the Federation what Meyer did with Kirk and to some degree with the other characters?
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