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  #21  
Old 08-07-2010, 12:35 PM
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Why stop now?

I don't think that any future series should kid itself that space wouldn't actually be a dangerous place from time to time (does our TOS redshirt count not kinda attest that it actually rather is? Not to mention the sheer amount of villains out there with a penchant for destroying Earth!).

IMO, I want a remotely realistic series in which we have to acknowledge not only that it's not all the GR romanticism of 'being out there' and that some characters may actually have a variety of opinions about the merits of deep space exploration and travel (and perhaps who better than a doctor to actually comprehend that there are dangers out there to be considered amongst all the fun exploration and scantily clad women in distress!) beyond the stars.

Jeez, if another series is just going to be the frickin Waltons in Space then count me out of the damn thing.

Even Q once warned the crew that space wasn't 'for the timid' and that should be reflected.

You can have 'Space..........the Final Fronter' but maybe it doesn't have to be an easy-peasy frontier?

Maybe there could be some actual challenge involved?
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  #22  
Old 08-07-2010, 01:49 PM
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TOS and TNG might not be realistic and as you pointed out a close look upon the redshirts (there are no redshirts in TNG but still many unseen dead crewmembers) reveals quite some cynicism beneath the surface. But I kinda like the naivity of TOS and the city in space idea of TNG, precisely because it doens't feature realistic but rather dream-like qualities.

DS9 and ENT on the other hand are more down to Earth which let to some great stories and story-lines, e.g. the war stories in DS9 show the faces and fates of the "redshirts" ... but there is also something missing in these shows.

Perhaps a synthesis of both approaches might be interesting.
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2010, 01:55 PM
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Yeah, I think the naivete of TOS worked because people were a little more like that themselves in the 60s.

A much more optimistic period of history in general.

But the audience has moved on, and you can't go back to those days in quite the same way. Nowadays with global events and (in theory) greater public awareness of some of the things that happen it would be unrealistic to expect that kind of approach in a contemporary series.

Given that the last incarnation of BSG will be one of the template political shows that any future Trek series will be compared to (justly or not depending on how one views that show, it'll happen that way regardless) and while you don't have to go as dark as that show was from the start and through it's run, you are going to have to embrace some of the space realities as well.

A synthesis of some description would at the very least be required in the present age for audiences to expect..
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  #24  
Old 08-07-2010, 02:02 PM
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But wouldn't it be also nice if Trek opposes the current cultural Zeitgeist of going down the dark road in sci-fi to some degree?
Perhaps sometimes along the lines of Kirk's "risk is our business" speech which reflects the spirit of explorers? On the other hand that might have been already there implicitly, after all McCoy goes out there despite his phobia (I am consciously ignoring my previous view that he just wants to get away from it all).
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  #25  
Old 08-07-2010, 02:04 PM
Steve Gennarelli Steve Gennarelli is offline
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Personally, I think Paramount is happy to have J.J. commandeer the Franchise with a Big Screen entree every 2-3 years. Just like the executives of the mid 80's, there may come a point when the studio says, there's enough demand out there to have a weekly series.
I think they might attempt to bring the TNG era people back if enough of them were willing to. No matter who the crew would be, the stories are the key and if they
are exciting, optimistic and well written, since they have the "Star Trek" brand attached to it, it will be a huge success.
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2010, 02:17 PM
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Well, things go in cycles and darker is the flavour the last few years. But I find it hard to answer that question myself with an unequivocal 'yes'. Though I do understand the asking of it.

The problem that I'm trying to understand with your position Horatio, if I may say so - please don't take this personally, I've just been thinking is all - is I think there's an element of incompatibility between the basic wishes. You've often stated you (as others do I think as well) want to have a program which dares to be political again, but also wish the optimism of TOS at it's best. You want to go against the darker zeitgeist but arguably the more overtly political of the Star Trek series were really DS9 and ENT, which also had far darker core aspects to them. Despite the other Trek elements they possessed.

Because getting into politics and especially reflecting current politics/issues is going to take you down that darker path (which is why BSG was so dark and so hard-going at times) more than TOS ever did.

So, how does a show creator try to have a new Trek show that goes against today's more prevalent darker themes, is brighter and optimistic like TOS yet also reflects contemporary issues in a sci-fi context?

Well, if I knew the answer to that I would be pitching to CBS right now!
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Last edited by kevin : 08-07-2010 at 02:25 PM.
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  #27  
Old 08-07-2010, 02:42 PM
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The trick are contrasts. That made TUC and FC work (and to a lesser degree also TWOK which isn't that dark but ends brightly) and the respective ENT stories which dealt with the formation of the Federation could be labeled an extension of FC.
All these stories are about people who err, who sometimes seriously mess up but strive for a better future.
Archer tortures someone but regrets it, it doesn't become justifiable or even a regularity. That's the fine line between dark and cynical and not even DS9 which went to the bitter end with no hope for change like in the Section 31 stories did become cynical. Yes, there is something rotten in the state but at least the protagonists honestly fight against it.

Let me say it like this, Trek should stay far away from all this cyberpunk stuff. There is only one feature which distinguishes Trek from other science fiction and this feature shouldn't get lost in my opinion ... and it never has so far.
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  #28  
Old 08-07-2010, 02:47 PM
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I don't feel there's been anything particularly cyberpunk anyway in Trek - certainly I do not feel that in relation to the new film. And most certainly not if I peruse names of films which have been identified as being contained within the Cyberpunk sub genre of films.

We've not hit Blade Runner yet with Trek!
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  #29  
Old 08-08-2010, 05:39 AM
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I think that, and please correct me if I am wrong, you'd like something more down to Earth and overall more realistic whereas I'd like something which switches between dark and bright (gee, I even imagine the Romulan War to be beyond nasty with stuff like mandatory human kamikaze flights).
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  #30  
Old 08-08-2010, 06:01 AM
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To an extent yes - obviously you've said yourself that you are quite a hard Roddenberryist and I've said that I'm less so, which obviously means we're going to have some different ideas about how to go about things, because we're seeking slightly different things in the first place.

I think you can still do brighter, optimistic futures, but you can temper it with a dose of reality (aka down to earth-ness) as opposed to what I would call maybe borderline fantasy (the oft-spoken of Earth as utopia). But then many people like the latter so I may well be in the minority anyway.

But then I'm also only a viewer like everyone else, so I'm just another in the line of fans who all have their own wants and preferences. Ultimately, we are still a long way away from another weekly series so until something concrete emerges we really don't know what we might get, or who might be involved in conceptualising/showrunning it, and what the intent will be with it.

Since I'd bet it's probably a good 5 years minimum or so away anyhow.
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