The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > General Star Trek Discussions > Films > Movies (I - X) > No security at Khitomer?
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 05-29-2010, 10:13 AM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,207
Default

What, and no one notices how many recycled shots everybody's favorite movie STII has? It's almost half the fx shots that are in the movie.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-29-2010, 11:03 AM
Roysten's Avatar
Roysten Roysten is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 918
Default

Recycled shots are around a plenty, the series had them practically every week, though in a series it's more forgiveable. I remember the Insurrection trailer having shots from Generations and First Contact in it, guess there wasn't enough action in the entire film to flesh out a 2 minute trailer.

Security at Khitomer was thin on the ground on the ground as well with the shooter being able to bring a weapon to the conference, leave the hall, cut open a window and fire off a shot all without anyone at the conference knowing. No surveillance or alarms anywhere?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:01 PM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiseb View Post
What, and no one notices how many recycled shots everybody's favorite movie STII has? It's almost half the fx shots that are in the movie.
Well, that's why they brought it in for $12 million (in 1982 money of course!). The only real problem I have is you can mostly tell which ones are recycled because the TMP shots look less like models!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roysten View Post
Security at Khitomer was thin on the ground on the ground as well with the shooter being able to bring a weapon to the conference, leave the hall, cut open a window and fire off a shot all without anyone at the conference knowing. No surveillance or alarms anywhere?
Don't worry about it, don't think about it - it's a Star Trek plot!!
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-04-2010, 02:18 PM
Steve Gennarelli Steve Gennarelli is offline
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 112
Default

Great post Kevin. If the security was super good, there'd be no conflict in the movie and Kirk would have less to do.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-05-2010, 12:46 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,077
Default

I find not questioning the 'nuts and bolts' in many Star Trek plots often greatly assists in enjoying the end result better.

Not that it's not fun to do so with the movies and eps - but at the end of they day most of them start to wobble when you do!
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-11-2010, 12:46 AM
Quark's Avatar
Quark Quark is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Santa Monica, California
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Hah, that's what my boss always says when someone is short on their register.
__________________
*The word "dabo" means "I will give" in Latin, and "Gold" in Aramaic.

J.J. "Binks" Abrams is taking over sci-fi!
Fans Expendable
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-11-2010, 05:19 AM
TheTrekkie's Avatar
TheTrekkie TheTrekkie is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 1,030
Default

Well the lack of security in space you easily can explain with secrecy. A Federation starship firing on a Klingon starship escalated the situation at the first place. So you don't want big fleets of either side near Khitomer.

However the lack of ground security is unexplainable and bloody stupid. Not even a civil security organisation is present.

How the heck could Kirk run to the President and knock him out of the way without any security intervening?

And how the heck did Kirk know that the shooter will shoot in exactly this second. Imagine him jumping onto the President when the shooter wasn't ready, yet. Then everyone would have assumed he was the assassin and he never had left prison for his whole lifetime.


STVI has a great story, but it is not absolutely perfect, coz of a few dramaturgical Hollywood nonesense (illogical behaviour that only purpose is its dramaturgical effect)
__________________
And if tyrants take me, And throw me in prison, My thoughts will burst free, Like blossoms in season.
Foundations will crumble, The structure will tumble, And free men will cry:
Thoughts are free!

Last edited by TheTrekkie : 07-11-2010 at 05:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-11-2010, 06:31 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,077
Default

Well, Kirk wouldn't have been able to take all the applause if a big burly security guy had prevented him from reaching the President..........at the exact moment the assassin fired........ah, the ol' 'nick of time' trick!!

Gotta remember who the hero is supposed to be!
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-11-2010, 08:27 AM
Futureguy Futureguy is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,153
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
I wouldn't worry about it too much.

It's one of many aspects of a Star Trek film that perhaps doesn't bear a high level of scrutiny because as soon as you give it some - you need to start breaking out the sticky tape to shore it up!

Maybe the last minute location change was a factor, maybe the fact that it was intended to be secret meant that they were keeping highly visible defences to a minimum in order to actually not draw attention to what was happening on the surface of the planet.

Maybe Chang/Cartwright had a part to play in deciding that or ensuring that there was no major ship presence. Maybe not. I'm still not entirely sure how it was that Sulu and the Excelsior knew where the 'top secret' conference was being held when they had no part to play in it anyway.

It doesn't matter much - none of it was suggested in the script anyway so probably best to just go with the flow on it!

OK, this is a reach...but was it ever established that Chang was originally there to wait for the Enterprise? As for Sulu knowing about where the meeting was being held, perhaps after Kirk and Bones escaped from prison, Chang's plans changed from an outright massacre of the conference to one of destroying Kirk and The Enterprise, by using a transmission of information to Excelsior about where the conference was taking placed, with the sure bet that Kirk would find out that information from Sulu. This would have been a way to involve two of the best ship and crews in SF and make it seem as if a crazed and convicted Starship captain and crew had found the conference to finish the job he started earlier. Even if Sulu had not shown up, a (rigged) investigation of the events would have found Sulu and his officers guilty of "conspiracy" with Kirk, along with the whole crew of the Enterprise. Excelsior would have been re-staffed with a more "war-minded" crew. Enterprise probably was expected to become "past" history, by being confronted by Chang.

Chang is there (now) waiting for Kirk to make it look like the "E" fired on the conference. Sulu showing up was just icing on the cake! But by Sulu showing up, Chang's attention was split, giving Spock and Bones time to reprogram the torpedo to seek out the BOP. The assassin at the conference was just a backup part of the plan.

Just my mind filling in the gaps of speculation!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.