The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > General Star Trek Discussions > TV Shows > Original Series > The Enterprise Incident
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 04-10-2010, 07:58 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

I'm actually watching it just now on season 3 TOS-R. Ironically I had forgotten that in this third season episode the Enterprise and crew 'discover' that Romulans have developed cloaking technology.....

....clearly they must have all underwent a memory-wipe after the events of the first season episode 'Balance of Terror' which featured a cloaked ship.

And yep, the Romulan Commander is not at all competent!
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist

Last edited by kevin : 04-10-2010 at 08:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:09 AM
Akula2ssn's Avatar
Akula2ssn Akula2ssn is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
I'm actually watching it just now on season 3 TOS-R. Ironically I had forgotten that in this third season episode the Enterprise and crew 'discover' that Romulans have developed cloaking technology.....

....clearly they must have all underwent a memory-wipe after the events of the first season episode 'Balance of Terror' which featured a cloaked ship.

And yep, the Romulan Commander is not at all competent!
Hey, they say the mind is the first to go with age so you never know.
__________________

"Don't confuse facts with reality."
-Robert D. Ballard
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:19 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akula2ssn View Post
Hey, they say the mind is the first to go with age so you never know.
Interestingly, I decided to look up the Memory Alpha entry for the episode and there was originally dialogue that was present to state it was an 'improved' version of the BoT technology.

But it got removed somewhere along the way and so it looks like a mismatch between seasons now.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:29 AM
Akula2ssn's Avatar
Akula2ssn Akula2ssn is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
Enterprise Incident is hardly comparable with Balance of Terror so let's be honest, Romulans didn't come to full life before TNG produced about one decent Romulan episode per season.
Mark Lenard also made a much more convincing Romulan.
__________________

"Don't confuse facts with reality."
-Robert D. Ballard
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:35 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Although - now I'm wondering (since the Romulan technology was so easily integrated into Starfleet technology) whether the Federation used it at all up until they agreed not to pursue it further after the Treaty of Algeron.

They had a few decades when they had possession of it before Tomed took place in the early 24th Century.

Of course, there is also the fact that cloaking technology has proven relatively easy to circumvent when suitable so maybe that was why they decided to agree not to pursue it after Tomed. They had already had it for a few years and decided it wasn't worth having in the long term.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-10-2010, 08:43 AM
starwarsrcks's Avatar
starwarsrcks starwarsrcks is offline
Vice Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 3,062
Default

I liked when Kirk was disguised himself as a romulan he looked pretty awesome
__________________



Space is disease and dangerous wrapped in darkness and silence-Leonard Bones McCoy
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-10-2010, 09:00 AM
Akula2ssn's Avatar
Akula2ssn Akula2ssn is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Although - now I'm wondering (since the Romulan technology was so easily integrated into Starfleet technology) whether the Federation used it at all up until they agreed not to pursue it further after the Treaty of Algeron.

They had a few decades when they had possession of it before Tomed took place in the early 24th Century.

Of course, there is also the fact that cloaking technology has proven relatively easy to circumvent when suitable so maybe that was why they decided to agree not to pursue it after Tomed. They had already had it for a few years and decided it wasn't worth having in the long term.
Well, the thing is that in the end of the episode, Spock makes a statements that is really all too true. Military secrets are among the most fleeting. No sooner does one side come up with a new innovation, the other side will quickly try to counter it. This is particularly true when you look at submarine warfare and how it quickly evolved over the course of the past century. Today it continues to evolve with the new German and Dutch subs that run on fuel cells. They're extremely quiet, even compared to nuclear subs and I believe the US Navy had leased one of them from Holland to develop better detection capabilities.

It seems like the strength of the cloaking device was not that it made the ship completely undetectable. In fact I'm sure a cloaked ship is very detectable once you know what to look for and how to search for it. However, the cloaking device brings to the battlefield a huge degree of uncertainty. It's particularly useful if you are more limited in your resources than your opponent.

Historically the one that use capabilities such as submarines the most are those that do not have the resources and the strength to go in a head to head slugging match. This was certainly true of America in its war for independence. September 7, 1776 marked the very first ever recorded attempt by a submarine to sink an enemy ship. The Americans tried to sink the HMS Eagle using a submarine invented by David Bushnell.

On February 17, 1864 the Confederate submarine H. L. Hunley became the first submarine in history to successfully sink an enemy ship. Given their lack of industry needed to build and support a large fleet, the Confederacy experimented with torpedoes (now called mines) as well as submarines and semi-submersibles as an equalizer against the US Navy.

Then you have Germany during both World Wars which simply lacked a large enough standing navy to go up against Briton's let alone the Allies as a whole.
__________________

"Don't confuse facts with reality."
-Robert D. Ballard
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-11-2010, 12:50 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akula2ssn View Post
Well, the thing is that in the end of the episode, Spock makes a statements that is really all too true. Military secrets are among the most fleeting. No sooner does one side come up with a new innovation, the other side will quickly try to counter it. This is particularly true when you look at submarine warfare and how it quickly evolved over the course of the past century. Today it continues to evolve with the new German and Dutch subs that run on fuel cells. They're extremely quiet, even compared to nuclear subs and I believe the US Navy had leased one of them from Holland to develop better detection capabilities.

It seems like the strength of the cloaking device was not that it made the ship completely undetectable. In fact I'm sure a cloaked ship is very detectable once you know what to look for and how to search for it. However, the cloaking device brings to the battlefield a huge degree of uncertainty. It's particularly useful if you are more limited in your resources than your opponent.

Historically the one that use capabilities such as submarines the most are those that do not have the resources and the strength to go in a head to head slugging match. This was certainly true of America in its war for independence. September 7, 1776 marked the very first ever recorded attempt by a submarine to sink an enemy ship. The Americans tried to sink the HMS Eagle using a submarine invented by David Bushnell.

On February 17, 1864 the Confederate submarine H. L. Hunley became the first submarine in history to successfully sink an enemy ship. Given their lack of industry needed to build and support a large fleet, the Confederacy experimented with torpedoes (now called mines) as well as submarines and semi-submersibles as an equalizer against the US Navy.

Then you have Germany during both World Wars which simply lacked a large enough standing navy to go up against Briton's let alone the Allies as a whole.
Exactly and it was Spock's line that made me wonder in the first place.

I realised that since 'The Enterprise Incident' takes place in around 2268/69 and Algeron didn't get agreed until after 2311 (when Tomed took place) then that's over 40 years they had (in timeline theory anyway) to take a look at the technology and do whatever research around it they wanted to when they were not being bound by any Treaty not to do any such research.

Which I figured is surely enough time to decide if you really need it as a strategic element of your offence/defence requirements. And if Starfleet decided it wasn't something they needed then agreeing to that particular point in Algeron not to develop their own may not have been a big sacrifice for the Federation.

Of course, since we know so little about that Treaty we don't know if the Romulans/Federation agreed it themelves or if it was arbitrated by a third party power etc.

Although another thing I wondered as well now is that the episode depicts the Federation engaging in espionage and theft of technology from another power in TOS, long before we knew of the existence of covert ops units like Section 31 in later DS9.

It's almost like a little retrospective precursor to such stories in DS9.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-11-2010, 09:37 AM
Akula2ssn's Avatar
Akula2ssn Akula2ssn is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Although another thing I wondered as well now is that the episode depicts the Federation engaging in espionage and theft of technology from another power in TOS, long before we knew of the existence of covert ops units like Section 31 in later DS9.

It's almost like a little retrospective precursor to such stories in DS9.
You're not the first to have that thought. There's a novel series called Section 31. I think it's the first book in the series called "Cloak" which takes place after the Enterprise Incident where Kirk discovers that a previously unknown organization within the Federation was using the cloaking technology he stole for unknown purposes. I haven't read the series myself but I remember seeing it in stores a while back.
__________________

"Don't confuse facts with reality."
-Robert D. Ballard
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:27 AM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.