The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > General Star Trek Discussions > Trek Tech > Ships, Devices, etc. > rank on collar
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-24-2008, 04:41 AM
arutha's Avatar
arutha arutha is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: deep underground
Posts: 404
Default

hmmm sounds plausible,

as for the new rank insignia, the rank was never used again in the series after TOS so maybe it was abandond after TOS?
__________________
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-24-2008, 04:59 AM
Zardoz's Avatar
Zardoz Zardoz is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere In The Future
Posts: 31,432
Default

After TOS, wasn't Commodore abandoned too?

As for Trek 6, not sure where they got Col. from...
__________________
"High Priestesses Of Zardoz" By Eliza's Starbase Of Avatars Copyright 2009."
"Zardoz Speaks To You, His Choosen Trek Fans."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-24-2008, 05:18 AM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arutha View Post
hmmm sounds plausible,

as for the new rank insignia, the rank was never used again in the series after TOS so maybe it was abandond after TOS?
Most likely. At least we never heard of such a rank again in the 24th-Century anyway. One of the reasons why "fleet captain" never made it officially into the U.S. Navy may been because it might have been considered redundant with the rank of commodore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz
After TOS, wasn't Commodore abandoned too?

As for Trek 6, not sure where they got Col. from...
Yeah, most people believe that Starfleet abandoned commodore as an actual rank like the U.S. Navy did. The grade would likely have been replaced by a one-pip admiral.

As far as Colonel West's rank in Star Trek VI, that would make sense if West was a Starfleet Marine. In the real world, the rank of colonel in the Marines is equal to the rank of captain in the Navy.

Unfortunately, West was wearing an admiral's rank pin and uniform in Star Trek VI. In this case, we might have to pretend we didn't see that (it wasn't the only uniform goof in that movie actually).
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-24-2008, 05:29 AM
Zardoz's Avatar
Zardoz Zardoz is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere In The Future
Posts: 31,432
Default

C-

So instead of Commodore, it would be just Admiral, not rear, fleet, ect ect?

I noticed West's insignia too. But Starfleet does not have marines, at leats htat have been shown in the TOS era.

Could Starfleet Intelligence have a diffrent ranking system? I know modern Naval Intelligce does not.
__________________
"High Priestesses Of Zardoz" By Eliza's Starbase Of Avatars Copyright 2009."
"Zardoz Speaks To You, His Choosen Trek Fans."
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:07 AM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
C-

So instead of Commodore, it would be just Admiral, not rear, fleet, ect ect?
In the real U.S. Navy, a one-pip admiral would be the same as a one-star admiral, so the rank would be rear admiral (lower half).

I've never been particularly fond of the lower and upper half designations for one- and two-star admirals, though.

Quote:
I noticed West's insignia too. But Starfleet does not have marines, at leats htat have been shown in the TOS era.

Could Starfleet Intelligence have a diffrent ranking system? I know modern Naval Intelligce does not.
We actually don't know if Starfleet had a marines division or not. If Starfleet did have a marines division, then they may be personnel not normally assigned to starships except in times of war, who knows? West may have come from a division of Starfleet that evolved from the MACOs in ENT or from the Army, or even the Air Force possibly. We just don't know how Starfleet was really set up back then.

But the gung-ho way West was talking about dealing with the Klingon tended to suggest he was in command of some sort of ground forces or commando unit within Starfleet. As a colonel, his rank would fit as such.
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:16 AM
Zardoz's Avatar
Zardoz Zardoz is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere In The Future
Posts: 31,432
Default

C-

Thanks for the Admirality info!!

I allways assumed the MACOs evolved into Starfleet security. Granted, Marines have never been mentioned in the TOS era, but it was allways eluded that they (or something simular) were not needed in TOS era travels.

I personally think the Col. ranking in Trek 6 was a mistake in real life (sure one of the reasons his scenes were cut in the Theatrical version of the film.)

I could see Starfleet having a specialized secret ops kinda situation, but not a MArine style force, that would be more in line with the Security division.
__________________
"High Priestesses Of Zardoz" By Eliza's Starbase Of Avatars Copyright 2009."
"Zardoz Speaks To You, His Choosen Trek Fans."
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:14 AM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
C-

Thanks for the Admirality info!!

I allways assumed the MACOs evolved into Starfleet security. Granted, Marines have never been mentioned in the TOS era, but it was allways eluded that they (or something simular) were not needed in TOS era travels.

I personally think the Col. ranking in Trek 6 was a mistake in real life (sure one of the reasons his scenes were cut in the Theatrical version of the film.)

I could see Starfleet having a specialized secret ops kinda situation, but not a MArine style force, that would be more in line with the Security division.
As their name generally suggest, the Marines evolved (more or less) from a need to have a security division aboard Navy ships.

Back during the Napoleonic Wars, Navy ships usually carried a contingent of Marines aboard. While they mostly served as the ship's security force, they also were the ship's ground troops in battles taking place ashore or aboard enemy vessels.

That practice is still in use today. Many U.S. Marines are currently serving aboard Navy vessels, and like the Navy, Marines sometimes acknowledge their own superior officers as "Aye, sir." While the Marines are considered a separate branch of the U.S. military, they've always been under the administration of the Navy.
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:18 AM
Zardoz's Avatar
Zardoz Zardoz is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere In The Future
Posts: 31,432
Default

So then Starfleet security should follow "Marine" rules, as you laid out so well C.
__________________
"High Priestesses Of Zardoz" By Eliza's Starbase Of Avatars Copyright 2009."
"Zardoz Speaks To You, His Choosen Trek Fans."
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:36 AM
arutha's Avatar
arutha arutha is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: deep underground
Posts: 404
Default

still it could have been poissble for a sort of marines force in reserve for starfleet, maybe as an asset to the "normal" security force?

As it evolved from MACO. remember we also saw some soldier boy like officers in that episode in DS9 the one were Jake en Bashir land in a hot zone.
__________________
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:54 AM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
So then Starfleet security should follow "Marine" rules, as you laid out so well C.
Realistically, yeah, it should. The security division should have consisted solely of Marines--including the chief of security--but Roddenberry had his reasons for doing otherwise, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arutha
still it could have been poissble for a sort of marines force in reserve for starfleet, maybe as an asset to the "normal" security force?
I like that idea alot. You call in the Marines when things get really ugly and you just have to kick somebody's butt and ask questions later. That's kind of what it really is like between the Navy and the Marines...
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:32 AM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.