[horatio]

I agree, for me the second season was quite good (strangely I also like TNG's and ENT's second season very much).

[kevin]

From what I recall, I remember once saying if ENT season 1 had been more like season 2 I might have paid more attention to it instead of letting myself drift.

I do still quite like TNG season 1 though, but 2 is also quite well done. Except for 'Shades of Gray'.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Voyager and Enterprise really both suffer from the same problem in the end. They both have very interesting premises, but neither show was willing to take the risks necessary to push the limits and get the most out of those premises. Wasted opportunities really. And it was that lack of risk taking that nearly killed Trek.

[jla1987]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

Voyager and Enterprise really both suffer from the same problem in the end. They both have very interesting premises, but neither show was willing to take the risks necessary to push the limits and get the most out of those premises. Wasted opportunities really. And it was that lack of risk taking that nearly killed Trek.

Agreed 100%

[kevin]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

Voyager and Enterprise really both suffer from the same problem in the end. They both have very interesting premises, but neither show was willing to take the risks necessary to push the limits and get the most out of those premises. Wasted opportunities really. And it was that lack of risk taking that nearly killed Trek.

I can't really argue with that.

[Roysten]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

Voyager and Enterprise really both suffer from the same problem in the end. They both have very interesting premises, but neither show was willing to take the risks necessary to push the limits and get the most out of those premises. Wasted opportunities really. And it was that lack of risk taking that nearly killed Trek.

Yep a fair point.

Originally Posted by Horatio

I agree, for me the second season was quite good (strangely I also like TNG's and ENT's second season very much).

I'd agree with that, and the 2nd season of VOY had some good episodes, 'Death Wish' was one of my favourite episodes of the whole run and 'Twisted', despite being a bottle show as quite scary in some ways.

I enjoyed 'Basics', but it came across very much as a clearing out the attic exercise stumping any further growth in certain story areas, like Kevin said 'escape doors' for the show.

[HRH The KING]

Originally Posted by horatio

Yeah, let's just throw our principles overboard when things get a bit tough. This is precisely what Trek is not about.

Star Trek is about examining social issues. That's what it was created for.

Testing one's principles in extreme circumstance is part of that.


If the conclusion is that "in a tough situation, our principles will always hold true, our ship will never get any lasting damage, everything will always look pristine, we have dozens of shuttles in our tiny shuttle bay, we can build a super shuttle twice, the Maquis will simply abandon their principles and willingly accept Starfleet rules, and we have a Borg babe who can solve almost any problem", then it leads to a bland preachy and self-righteous show, which is precisely what VOY was.

[Roysten]

Originally Posted by HRH The KING

Star Trek is about examining social issues. That's what it was created for.

Testing one's principles in extreme circumstance is part of that.


If the conclusion is that "in a tough situation, our principles will always hold true, our ship will never get any lasting damage, everything will always look pristine, we have dozens of shuttles in our tiny shuttle bay, we can build a super shuttle twice, the Maquis will simply abandon their principles and willingly accept Starfleet rules, and we have a Borg babe who can solve almost any problem", then it leads to a bland preachy and self-righteous show, which is precisely what VOY was.

Every now and again they'd push the boundaries and give us a good moral drama without throwing the reset switch, sadly though this often was a very rare event.

I found a lot that in the episodes where they're supposed to be grappling with their issues and facing a truly difficult decision the consequences are never really explored or the whole thing is just rushed through, I see Tuvix as an example of this. Is a shame really as DS9 and Enterprise showed that the producers were willing to take the risks to create those good stories with a hard dilemma at their core.

[Saquist]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

Voyager and Enterprise really both suffer from the same problem in the end. They both have very interesting premises, but neither show was willing to take the risks necessary to push the limits and get the most out of those premises. Wasted opportunities really. And it was that lack of risk taking that nearly killed Trek.

I don't think it was about risk...just imagination.
And I would point out that ...serialized shows almost have to have turn into progressive plot stories because there is only so much single contained stories you can do.