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  #41  
Old 02-26-2010, 10:55 AM
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A lot of TNG certainly has aged badly, I hated Code of Honour, was just a massive step backwards for what Star Trek was supposed to convey. Same with the episode where Tasha gives Wesley the 'drugs are bad' speech, was almost like they just inserted it in there to have a message.

The shows with a moral are always better when they just show us rather than tell us what's going on. The best example of this I think is 'Far beyond the stars', they never once use the word racism in that episode yet it was clear to everyone what the theme was about. I find that DS9 has aged a lot better.
Yeah, I think there are too many Trek episodes (from TOS all the way through to the end and parts of the movies) where the 'message'/'moral' etc gets tacked on at the end with some brief dialogue to validate the preceding episode.

Some of them have greater subtelty than others.

The greatest eps - 'CoTEOF', 'Far Beyond the Stars', 'The Inner Light' etc work on such a level.
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  #42  
Old 02-28-2010, 07:43 AM
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Yeah, I think there are too many Trek episodes (from TOS all the way through to the end and parts of the movies) where the 'message'/'moral' etc gets tacked on at the end with some brief dialogue to validate the preceding episode.

Some of them have greater subtelty than others.

The greatest eps - 'CoTEOF', 'Far Beyond the Stars', 'The Inner Light' etc work on such a level.
Is always so glaringly obvious when threats are clumsily crowbarred in to add a little drama to an episode. Happened in 'In Theory' and 'New Ground' especially.

I'm really glad that the producers held their nerve in 'Family' by not adding a threat into the show to make it more dramatic.
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  #43  
Old 02-28-2010, 09:33 AM
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Agreed - the 'In Theory' subplot is really just a diversion so as to break up the development of the Data/Jenna story.

'Family' is much more satisfying because it just sticks to the one general theme and runs all it's stories along that line.
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  #44  
Old 03-09-2010, 03:24 PM
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Agreed - the 'In Theory' subplot is really just a diversion so as to break up the development of the Data/Jenna story.

'Family' is much more satisfying because it just sticks to the one general theme and runs all it's stories along that line.
Is nice that the creators didn't lose their nerve and try and something dramatic to it. It happens a bit in 'The Inner Light' with the cut backs to the Enterprise seeing them trying to wake Picard, I guess they were relevant to the story but they could have been shorter.
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  #45  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:42 AM
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VOY jumped the shark as soon as Janeway said (in her horrible voice)..."we will be one crew.....a Starfleet crew" in the pilot episode. From that moment on, I knew the show would be seven years of blandness. VOY needed to be about the deconstruction of Starfleet values, not the reinforcement of them.
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  #47  
Old 10-11-2010, 10:45 AM
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No, it was merely an indication that the show wasn't in any way going to make things difficult or complex for itself by keeping things as simple as possible.

They could have showed them working out said principles (and differences) over the longer term, as the ship's two very different crews got used to their situation, but they choose to do it without any real effort.

As noted, there could also have been a consideration of how hard it might be to really keep to these principles in the situation they were in (a matter handled far too late in the game and too briefly with the Ransom and the Equinox story) and the challenge it might represent.

However, the show chose not to particularly go down that route in favour of it's aforementioned simplicity. Put bluntly, there has never been a Star Trek series that squandered it's conceptual potential the way the VOY did from start to finish.
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  #48  
Old 10-11-2010, 11:50 AM
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Yeah, let's just throw our principles overboard when things get a bit tough. This is precisely what Trek is not about.
The best Trek shows are often when those values are tested, and I think that's what he is talking about here.
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  #49  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:07 PM
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Sure, there could've been many stories about tensions between the Starfleet and Maquis crews, but that would've worn out quickly over time.

Star Trek is entertainment first....headiness second.
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:11 PM
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In a lot of ways, Stargate Universe is everything Voyager should have been if you ask me.
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