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  #31  
Old 10-11-2010, 10:52 AM
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kevin kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by HRH The KING View Post
Jellico wanted them to move from a 3-shift schedule to a 4-shift schedule.

That would mean reduced hours per shift, and thus would reduce the chances of fatigue in a stressful situation.

Jellico was right. A man of Riker's capabilities should have been capable of "getting it done" without whining and complaining.
And if Jellico hadn't decided to do it in the middle of a greater issue then it might have been fine.

However, he made an abrupt change that would turn the ship upside down just when it needed to be working at it's most efficient.

This is the argument that Riker should have used - because he did act like a child a little bit - and argued for holding off until the Cardassian emergency had passed.
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  #32  
Old 10-17-2010, 08:43 PM
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HRH The KING HRH The KING is offline
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Wrong, it increases stress and decreases efficiency during the first days or weeks in which the crew has to deal with a new work rythm, new people on their shifts, etc.
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And if Jellico hadn't decided to do it in the middle of a greater issue then it might have been fine.

However, he made an abrupt change that would turn the ship upside down just when it needed to be working at it's most efficient.
Turn the ship upside down? How? By asking them to switch from three shifts to four? Isn't this supposed to be the Federation's flagship, with presumably the best officers in the fleet? If they can handle the Borg, they can surely handle personnel administration changes.

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Jellico was a jerk who just wanted to play boss. Riker was right to object to this kind of 'unauthorized authority' which was one of the frequently occuring themes in TNG.
Jellico WAS the boss. He was the commanding officer. He didn't ask Riker to ritually flog the crew. He wasn't Captain Bligh. He asked the executive officer, who was supposed to be such a good officer that he had been offered numerous starships to command, to adjust the duty schedule, and apparently it was a bridge too far. If the Enterprise's working procedures are so rigid that they cannot be changed without massive disruption, that supports the argument that the administration on that ship was severely flawed before Jellico even arrived.
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  #33  
Old 10-18-2010, 06:32 AM
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horatio horatio is offline
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Jellico is a better captain than Picard who is a textbook example for good leadership? That's beyond ridiculous but it is always interesting to see how authoritarian personalites tick.
You suggest in the case of Jellico that officers have to always follow their superiors, even when they give orders just for the sake of giving orders. You also argue for the "deconstruction of Starfleet values" in the case of VOY.
Trek is not about "follow the leader and ignore your rules, ethics and principles". It isn't a fascist (or shall I say monarchist) but rather a liberal franchise which especially in TNG frequently dealt with wrong authority, e.g. Jellico, Satie, Dougherty or the Picard impostor from Allegiance.
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  #34  
Old 01-02-2011, 10:20 PM
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HRH The KING HRH The KING is offline
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Jellico is a better captain than Picard who is a textbook example for good leadership? That's beyond ridiculous but it is always interesting to see how authoritarian personalites tick.
Picard wasn't beyond criticism. Admiral Nech. often held him to account for his actions.

As for authoritarian personalities, all captains have them, due to possessing supreme authority on a starship.

Quote:
You suggest in the case of Jellico that officers have to always follow their superiors, even when they give orders just for the sake of giving orders.
Jellico didn't give orders for the sake of giving orders. All his orders were justified.

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You also argue for the "deconstruction of Starfleet values" in the case of VOY.
Yes, in order to make VOY a multi-layered show

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Trek is not about "follow the leader and ignore your rules, ethics and principles". It isn't a fascist (or shall I say monarchist) but rather a liberal franchise which especially in TNG frequently dealt with wrong authority, e.g. Jellico, Satie, Dougherty or the Picard impostor from Allegiance
No one has argued that Trek is fascist. You are responding to arguments that haven't been made.
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  #35  
Old 01-06-2011, 09:23 AM
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Captains don't possess "supreme authority", they are bound by rules, regulations and the law. Unlike your arguments Trek isn't fascist.
If you consider Jellico to be a great leader I would really like to hire you. Nothing but a dumb worker who tolerates all crazy sh*t from his boss.
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  #36  
Old 01-06-2011, 10:30 PM
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HRH The KING HRH The KING is offline
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Captains don't possess "supreme authority", they are bound by rules, regulations and the law.
There was nothing to suggest Jellico's orders violated any Starfleet rule or regulation, or any Federation law.

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Unlike your arguments Trek isn't fascist.
I've made no such arguments.

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If you consider Jellico to be a great leader I would really like to hire you. Nothing but a dumb worker who tolerates all crazy sh*t from his boss.
And now you've resorted to ad hominems.

That's a shame.
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  #37  
Old 01-07-2011, 10:50 AM
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Caught in the act Mr. Supreme Authority so don't cry foul.
To repeat the old Marx brothers joke, if it talks like an authoritarian / monarchist / fascist, if it smells likes one, if it looks like one then don't be fooled, it is one.
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  #38  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:54 PM
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HRH The KING HRH The KING is offline
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Caught in the act Mr. Supreme Authority so don't cry foul.
To repeat the old Marx brothers joke, if it talks like an authoritarian / monarchist / fascist, if it smells likes one, if it looks like one then don't be fooled, it is one.
Repeating your bizarre arguments doesn't make them any more logical.

Last edited by HRH The KING : 01-07-2011 at 11:57 PM.
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  #39  
Old 08-14-2011, 09:42 AM
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canadianrosey canadianrosey is offline
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Jellico was was written to seem like a jerk so the crew would have something to react to and the fans would want Picard even more, kind of how Capt Harriman was written to look like a timorous idiot who just happens to become captain of the flagship in Generations to make Kirk look even better. It was lazy writing, imo.

I liked Jellico because he was a breath of fresh air. A little much at times, admittedly; nobody likes a new boss who just walks in the door and starts busting everyone's chops. But he had an agenda, clearly, and he wanted it carried out. The Enterprise crew are understandably taken aback by Jellico's demeanor but at times they also just act like little kids with their favorite soother taken away. Whatever, it's how the show was presented to us.

Jellico: Efficient captain, personality of a belt sander, not much for small talk and hugs.
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