[kevin]

Originally Posted by Saquist

The way these guys think it's outrageous.

"HEY, this sounds contrived"
"How bout a line that says it isn't contrived it's just Fate"...


.....WTH.....

It's not outrageous - they know there are some contrivances in getting everything together and it's not as if Trek hasn't flirted with 'destiny' in the past anyhow.

Kirk, Sisko all had a bit of 'destiny' in their depictions.

They could be using the TOS Guardian's philosophy that - and I will phrase it wrongly but NCC has it somewhere - that time is like a river with eddies, flows and backwashes.

One could call that hogwash as well, or deeply profound depending on one's mood.

[Saquist]

Originally Posted by kevin

It's not outrageous - they know there are some contrivances in getting everything together and it's not as if Trek hasn't flirted with 'destiny' in the past anyhow.

Kirk, Sisko all had a bit of 'destiny' in their depictions.

They could be using the TOS Guardian's philosophy that - and I will phrase it wrongly but NCC has it somewhere - that time is like a river with eddies, flows and backwashes.

One could call that hogwash as well, or deeply profound depending on one's mood.

Definitely Hogwash...

I don't recall Edith dying despite his efforts.
I remember he literally let her be hit.

I don't see the fate part.

Even IF it was in TOS....
to explain a contrivance is retarded.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by Saquist

Definitely Hogwash...

I don't recall Edith dying despite his efforts.
I remember he literally let her be hit.

I don't see the fate part.

Even IF it was in TOS....
to explain a contrivance is retarded.

Hey, I'm only saying time and fate and perhaps destiny has been brought up in Trek in the past, including TOS.

Besides, all the explaining in the world doesn't cover all the contrivances that exist in TOS and since it was removed from the film anyway then it's actually not even in this film.

[horatio]

Well, the last two times we saw Spock he tried to explain concepts like trust and fate to a fellow Vulan officer and he also tried to bring two people which have been one people two millenia ago together, again a matter of having faith "that the universe will unfold as it should."
So yeah, it is in a certain way the continuation of a previous theme. Whether one likes it or not is a different question.

[Saquist]

He wasn't being metaphysical.

Fate is sometimes another way of saying whatever will be will be.
If he was really trying to expalin a mysterious force that you can't escape like the stupidity that makes up final destination then logically why resist your own death...the ritual katra, why preserve ones self and why return from the dead.

All Kirk does is resist Fate.
You're talking these themes quite literally.
This is why sci fi isn't taken seriously.

[kevin]

Oh, I really don't take anything too literally in Star Trek anymore.