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  #1  
Old 01-08-2010, 04:46 AM
treksc treksc is offline
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Default Is Star Trek Dead?

Please bear with me for this. I feel like Star Trek a la TOS and TNG is gone forever. Let me explain.

I am sorry for being the annoying mood killer since most people seem to like ST09, but I really cannot believe all the hype. ST09 is full of plot holes and the time travel story is stupid. The movie is only saved by the great cast.

Let me give you an example:
For instance I used to like First Contact, but the below reviews opened my eyes. The plot holes are mind boggling. But we accept it because we don't get anything better from Paramount. A similar analysis of the ST09 would completely destroy it.

Enjoy these reviews and then weep for Star Trek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZjkH...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Lr8...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlV3b...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06WK...eature=related

So I say, Star trek is not what it used to be. You might say, this is why we need a fresh approach. I don't agree. The TNG movies were already radically different from the TV show because they thought they need to cater to some action craving crowd, while a well thought through story was lacking always. It really makes me sad. I loved TNG. And all this culminates in ST09. We are now completely removed from what Trek once was and are left with Abbrams/Orci/Kutzman Transformers-like action blockbusters dummed down for the average Joe. And because we are used to this sort of movies, where you don't think twice, but just consume what is presented to you, we glorify this new ST09. We just don't demand good quality story telling anymore.

Sorry, just my opinion. I am curious about your opinion.
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2010, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treksc View Post
Please bear with me for this. I feel like Star Trek a la TOS and TNG is gone forever. Let me explain.

I am sorry for being the annoying mood killer since most people seem to like ST09, but I really cannot believe all the hype. ST09 is full of plot holes and the time travel story is stupid. The movie is only saved by the great cast.

Let me give you an example:
For instance I used to like First Contact, but the below reviews opened my eyes. The plot holes are mind boggling. But we accept it because we don't get anything better from Paramount. A similar analysis of the ST09 would completely destroy it.

So I say, Star trek is not what it used to be. You might say, this is why we need a fresh approach. I don't agree. The TNG movies were already radically different from the TV show because they thought they need to cater to some action craving crowd, while a well thought through story was lacking always. It really makes me sad. I loved TNG. And all this culminates in ST09. We are now completely removed from what Trek once was and are left with Abbrams/Orci/Kutzman Transformers-like action blockbusters dummed down for the average Joe. And because we are used to this sort of movies, where you don't think twice, but just consume what is presented to you, we glorify this new ST09. We just don't demand good quality story telling anymore.

Sorry, just my opinion. I am curious about your opinion.
No need to apologize, there are more than enough old Trek fans here who feel your pain. The answer lies in the fact that there were two separate creative teams behind TNG and Star Trek (2009). Abrams' creative team doesn't involve any old guard Trek producers, like TNG did, or Roddenberry. You got it exactly when you said Trek is now just another dumbed-down action drama that panders to the movie going crowd. They even threw in a little romance, between Spock and Uhura, to cater to the teeny boppers. As the TNG finale reminds us, all good things must end.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:58 AM
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I still find it funny that so many people cant look pass the glitter to see the underlying story lines that are very much inline with the way Trek movies have always been. So many people look passed the coming of age finding your place and learning your weaknesses and strengths and how new family reduces the one and increases the other.

Anything that does not change is destined to stagnate and die. So the look and flash of Star Trek has changed but the underlying theme has not. Their friendships and how alone they are so much less than they are together.
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  #4  
Old 01-08-2010, 05:09 AM
treksc treksc is offline
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@rabidfan

I can agree with the stagnation part. But all the polish, gloss and updated characters don't hide the weak and simplistic story, with all the time travel mess and non-sense like a "supernova that threatened to destroy the galaxy". How much sad, uneducated, unscientific crap this line alone holds is incredible. An that from a whole team of writers. Didn't they have high school physics. I mean, come on, when you write a SF movie ....
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Old 01-08-2010, 05:16 AM
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Saquist Saquist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chator View Post
No need to apologize, there are more than enough old Trek fans here who feel your pain. The answer lies in the fact that there were two separate creative teams behind TNG and Star Trek (2009). Abrams' creative team doesn't involve any old guard Trek producers, like TNG did, or Roddenberry. You got it exactly when you said Trek is now just another dumbed-down action drama that panders to the movie going crowd. They even threw in a little romance, between Spock and Uhura, to cater to the teeny boppers. As the TNG finale reminds us, all good things must end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by treksc View Post
Please bear with me for this. I feel like Star Trek a la TOS and TNG is gone forever. Let me explain.

I am sorry for being the annoying mood killer since most people seem to like ST09, but I really cannot believe all the hype. ST09 is full of plot holes and the time travel story is stupid. The movie is only saved by the great cast.

Let me give you an example:
For instance I used to like First Contact, but the below reviews opened my eyes. The plot holes are mind boggling. But we accept it because we don't get anything better from Paramount. A similar analysis of the ST09 would completely destroy it.

Enjoy these reviews and then weep for Star Trek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZjkH...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Lr8...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlV3b...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h06WK...eature=related

So I say, Star trek is not what it used to be. You might say, this is why we need a fresh approach. I don't agree. The TNG movies were already radically different from the TV show because they thought they need to cater to some action craving crowd, while a well thought through story was lacking always. It really makes me sad. I loved TNG. And all this culminates in ST09. We are now completely removed from what Trek once was and are left with Abbrams/Orci/Kutzman Transformers-like action blockbusters dummed down for the average Joe. And because we are used to this sort of movies, where you don't think twice, but just consume what is presented to you, we glorify this new ST09. We just don't demand good quality story telling anymore.

Sorry, just my opinion. I am curious about your opinion.
Indeed.

However I don't think Trek is dead but it is very much so, brainless.
The fans tend to encourage this though because they want more Trek not so much Great Trek. The studio gets the wrong message. What can you do?

...to draw from a members colorful discription....They are attempting to induce a shine unpon a congealed mass of fecal matter...
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Last edited by Saquist : 01-08-2010 at 05:21 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2010, 05:18 AM
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I have to disagree with everything you have said sorry but I can't see anything wrong with this awesome movie what did you find wrong with it
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by starwarsrcks View Post
I have to disagree with everything you have said sorry but I can't see anything wrong with this awesome movie what did you find wrong with it
Go watch some old episodes of TOS for comparision. You may not like them, but there is a difference in tone, style and substance that should be obvious.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:18 AM
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I have seen all the TOS episodes ok well this is a modern remake of Trek if that is a problem tell me
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:24 AM
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I have seen all the TOS episodes ok well this is a modern remake of Trek if that is a problem tell me
This is 'more" than a modern remake of Trek. If it was only a modern remake of Trek i would have no problem with it. It is a complete re-invention of Trek! And that is what I and other Trek fans take issue with. I'm sorry if you cann't see this or understand it.
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2010, 06:25 AM
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It seems whenever there's a new Star Trek series or movie, the question "Is Star Trek dead?" is inevitably asked.

Star Trek is held to a ridiculous standard by fans, IMO. Trek was never meant to be anything more than an space action/adventure series. It occasionally dealt with allegory and morality, yes, but more often than not it was about people in funny makeup, women in very tight outfits, and stuff being blown up. For every profound moment in Star Trek, there are two or more that aren't so profound. It can be fine wine one moment and then Kool-aid the next. And it's always been that way, and it should always be that way, IMO.

I think there is a sentiment by many fans that "This Is Star Trek" or "That Isn't Star Trek." Some people think that Star Trek XI represents a dumbing down of the franchise, yet forget (or are unaware) of what Star Trek really is...and it ain't about an optimistic future or about space exploration.

Objectively, Star Trek is simply an entertainment franchise. It exists in different forms and in different incarnations, and has inevitably catered to different audiences. Not every version of Trek is going to please everyone, but then I actually believe that it is totally impossible for anything to please everyone anyway.
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