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  #21  
Old 12-29-2009, 02:30 PM
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For safety reasons, you wouldn't let a ship controlled by a friendly commander get that close without a specific reason. They would have seen that ship coming from standoff distance. You'd never let it just come off your bow like that. There is no reason to do so. You accept it because it's in a film that you like.

It has nothing to do with them not knowing it's actually an enemy in control of the ship. It makes no sense regardless who is in command of the ship.
You say that now only because you have the advantage of knowing what happened afterward. Had it been a case of Reliant merely being a fellow Federation starship in distress, Enterprise would have to move within communications or sensor range to find out what was going on--which is indeed what Enterprise was doing when Khan attacked.

Saavik quoted a regulation which probably was never used between Starfleet ships until then.
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  #22  
Old 12-29-2009, 02:33 PM
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The franchise needed a reboot. This movie only got made because it was a reboot. Star Trek would be dead now if it wasn't made.
I don't agree with that. A writing team with at least a smidge of creativity could have easily come up with a great movie that not only adhered to canon, but also contained plenty of "stuff going boom" to satisfy the short attention span popcorn crowd. A re-boot was not necessary. A good Trek film was needed. Instead, we got a good sci-fi action flick which bore only a slight resemblance to Star Trek. But it was enough to make a quick buck and bring in the popcorn crowd. So I guess JJA and Paramount got what they wanted.
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  #23  
Old 12-29-2009, 02:34 PM
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I say it because in the vastness of space it makes absolutely no sense to let any ship that close to you without a specific reason. My thinking has nothing to do with what Khan did. These ships can see each other coming from incredible distances, and can communicate from even further distances. You are not going to let a ship, a ship that was just creeping along at that, just run right up on you without knowing exactly why they need to be that close. Big happy fleet or not, the scene makes no sense.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:36 PM
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I don't agree with that. A writing team with at least a smidge of creativity could have easily come up with a great movie that not only adhered to canon, but also contained plenty of "stuff going boom" to satisfy the short attention span popcorn crowd. A re-boot was not necessary. A good Trek film was needed. Instead, we got a good sci-fi action flick which bore only a slight resemblance to Star Trek. But it was enough to make a quick buck and bring in the popcorn crowd. So I guess JJA and Paramount got what they wanted.
Sure, a writing team could have come up with all kinds of great stories. But only a reboot was going to get greenlit with the recent performance of the franchise.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:36 PM
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TNG contradicted nearly everything that happend in TOS.
TMP contradicted TOS. TWOK contradicted TMP etc.
Examples please.

And for the record, Roddenberry had nothing to do with TWOK anyway. He had been basically pushed to the side by Paramount after TMP. Harve Bennett was the one running Trek at that point, with Roddenberry looking on from the sidelines.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:44 PM
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I say it because in the vastness of space it makes absolutely no sense to let any ship that close to you without a specific reason. My thinking has nothing to do with what Khan did. These ships can see each other coming from incredible distances, and can communicate from even further distances. You are not going to let a ship, a ship that was just creeping along at that, just run right up on you without knowing exactly why they need to be that close. Big happy fleet or not, the scene makes no sense.
It does if you don't think a fellow Federation starship is out to get you, but might be in distress.

That's what Khan was counting on to launch his sneak attack.

And later Kirk admitted that he had been punked.

The scene works.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:47 PM
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How? When? What? Sure, there were a few contradictions. But that is to be expected with a franchise that had been around that long.
Androids were contradicted, Klingons were contradicted the whole Starfleet ethics were contradicted.

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How? It took place several years after TOS. Things had changed. Kirk was an Admiral. What, specifically did it contradict?
TMP betrayed the characters, they were zombies.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:47 PM
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They didn't even verify that the ship was in distress, they just let it come right up on them. In wide open, infinite space.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:51 PM
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Sure, a writing team could have come up with all kinds of great stories. But only a reboot was going to get greenlit with the recent performance of the franchise.
The only reason for that is that Paramount didn't care about Star Trek. They only cared about making a buck. And that's understandable. That's what movie studios do. So it didn't matter to them who made the movie or how it was made. As long as it was made "popular". So they found a director and a bunch of writers who cared even less about Star Trek than the studio did. Star Trek had become a stigma. Star Trek fans were considered nerds and geeks to the rest of the moviegoing public. In order to overcome that label, ads like "This Is Not Your Father's Star Trek" were put into play. They wanted to distance this new version of Trek as far as possible from the original so it wouldn't be relegated to geekdom. JJA and his crack team of so-called Trekkie writers came up with a story that completely obliterated all that had come before. Effectively creating a brand new Star Trek. It is full of stuff going boom, sex, violence, super cool special effects, more stuff going boom, and such frenetic editing and shaky cam that one would have to pay attention or you would miss something. That kind of stuff is nice, but it only appeals to the popcorn, fluff movie crowd who don't care about plot or story as long as something explodes. That's not Trek. That's not "my" Trek. It's Die Hard in space. Granted, Die Hard was a decent movie, but it too seriously lacked substance. That's not Trek to me. I like action and things exploding as much as the next guy, but I prefer more intellect in my Trek. Give me TUC or TWOK any day over this muck.
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:51 PM
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It does if you don't think a fellow Federation starship is out to get you, but might be in distress.

That's what Khan was counting on to launch his sneak attack.

And later Kirk admitted that he had been punked.

The scene works.
Well, in a sense it does work. It's one of the most dramatic scenes in the film. I picked it for a very specific reason. To show how you can nitpick at anything. When defending the new film from nitpicking, I often contrast it with scenes from Wrath of Khan for that very reason. Wrath of Khan is often held up as the strongest of the films (and is my personal favorite). But you can tear it down just as easily.

And from a real world perspective if things like Starfleet were real, you absolutely would never let a ship creep right up on you like that for no reason. It doesn't hold up to critical thinking.
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