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  #21  
Old 12-30-2009, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post

OH...MY...GOODNESS!!! EPIC CLASSICNESS!!!

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  #22  
Old 12-31-2009, 04:35 AM
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Why should Orci and Kurtzman change their writing style? They produced FluffyTrek like Paramount ordered, the movie was a financial success, they claimed that they put all they got into one movie, so why should there come "more" in the next script?
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  #23  
Old 12-31-2009, 05:14 AM
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I really hope they shell out more when it comes to intelligence in the new movie. I liked the new one and all, but it was lacking the intelligence of some of the older films.

people always say this, but honestly, besides TMP, where was the high level of intelligence in the older movies? I didnt see them any different than the new movie when it comes to that.

Now if you are talking TV episodes, then yeah I agree. But you cant very easily transfer that from TV to Movies. Movies have to include a lot more than even is packed into an hour of TV.

TWOK was arguably the number one favorite movie of all time for a majority of Trekkie's (sorry I hate to be called Trekker) yet where was the high intelligence in that movie? It was action sequence after action sequence. The only resemblance to the tv show it had was being similar to balance of terror when Kirk and Khan were playing cat and mouse in the nebula.

Now all that said, I loved the new movie. Its tied for me with TWOK. But I would also like something more grander, more epic for the next movie. More heart wrenching drama like we saw in the first 15 minutes of the movie.

If they could expand the feelings I had in the first 15 minutes with the Kelvin to carry over to the whole movie I think it would be a crowning achievement for Trek and blow people away.

I have to say my favorite scene of all time is when Spock is dying and Kirk is lying there on the ground on the other side of the glass, a deflated demoralized man because his best friend just died. The first 15 minutes were very very close to that for me.

I want a whole movie of that. Trek always has only given us short shots of it though in any incarnation other than TV.
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  #24  
Old 12-31-2009, 05:28 AM
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TWOK was about something. About a man who feels old, who makes lethal mistakes, about death and life in general. Every Trek movie was about something that matters ... until now. Unless you consider coming together, forming a friendship and finding your place in life as grand themes. I would if Spock would not happily tell Kirk to blow up the Narada, if the writers had any clue about what kind of world the Federation is supposed to be, if they had something like a vision, something creative, something you could call art that emerges between the lines.
I have not seen any of it, that's why I call it exciting and entertaining but fluffy.
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  #25  
Old 12-31-2009, 05:50 AM
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I could say the same about this movie. Its about a man who feels alone who is consumed by his hatred changing him from the man he was to the man he becomes. As well as the part you said about coming together and forming the friendships and finding their places in life.

That is just as grand as any other. Its true theme was what was lost by Nero coming back and changing things and how to get it back to as close to what it should be.

Its very close to the themes of the mirror universe where only a couple things changing in history changed the outcome of everything else.

I dont know. I just tend to think that people are less willing to look at it in the same light as all the other movies because of some changes in style and it not being the original cast. People complain about the new enterprise but so did people when TMP came out. Yet now people look back on it and love that enterprise.

Hell if you take all the tv episodes of all the series I would even say about 50% of them were more fluffy than intellectual.

I dont know. I dont think anyone is going to change anyones minds. All else aside, we should all be happy that we at least still have Trek in some form other than reruns and dvds. If they hadnt done this movie or it had done badly we probably would never see another incarnation of Trek again.

For me there has never been anything as bad Trek. Better Trek yes, but bad Trek, no.

With that in mind let me share this with you all.

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/sapringe...TCOMFLASH.html
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  #26  
Old 12-31-2009, 06:04 AM
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I am absolutely willing to look upon it like on any other Trek movie and I couldn't care less about superficial stuff (unless designs are utterly inappropriate for a sci-fi movie like brewery-engineering). And what I see lacks the vision element that has been in EVERY previous Trek incarnation.
If someone doesn't give a sh*t about whether the Federation is the US in space or the UN in space, that's perfectly fine, but I care about this part of Trek and b*tch when it is absent.
But then again it is hard to resist the trend of the last years to make sci-fi in general more like fanatasy, less demanding, more fluffy ...
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  #27  
Old 12-31-2009, 06:10 AM
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Just out of curiosity, what would you rather a reboot have been? Or would you rather it not have been a reboot and been something else?

When the first rumors came out about a new trek I was kinda toying with the idea of it being more of a Academy movie that would branch off to an entirely new TV series with the Enterprise only guest staring from time to time.

Kinda like that episode of Voyager where they found the ship full of cadets.

Another I was really interested in was a take on the Star Trek S.C.E books. Turning that into a TV show and later into a movie =)

Check out that last link I sent... Its a combination of Star Trek and the Flintstones in anime. heh. Very entertaining.
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  #28  
Old 12-31-2009, 07:56 AM
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well it is good that they are starting this all over before the 5 year mission is that why they did the movie
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  #29  
Old 12-31-2009, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidFan View Post
I dont know. I just tend to think that people are less willing to look at it in the same light as all the other movies because of some changes in style and it not being the original cast. People complain about the new enterprise but so did people when TMP came out. Yet now people look back on it and love that enterprise.

Hell if you take all the tv episodes of all the series I would even say about 50% of them were more fluffy than intellectual.

Now all that said, I loved the new movie. Its tied for me with TWOK. But I would also like something more grander, more epic for the next movie. More heart wrenching drama like we saw in the first 15 minutes of the movie.

If they could expand the feelings I had in the first 15 minutes with the Kelvin to carry over to the whole movie I think it would be a crowning achievement for Trek and blow people away.
I had to edit down your posts for room, but I wanted to observe that I tend to agree with these observations.



Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I am absolutely willing to look upon it like on any other Trek movie and I couldn't care less about superficial stuff (unless designs are utterly inappropriate for a sci-fi movie like brewery-engineering). And what I see lacks the vision element that has been in EVERY previous Trek incarnation. If someone doesn't give a sh*t about whether the Federation is the US in space or the UN in space, that's perfectly fine, but I care about this part of Trek and b*tch when it is absent. But then again it is hard to resist the trend of the last years to make sci-fi in general more like fanatasy, less demanding, more fluffy ...
I know very well that that's an important part for you and certainly it is for me as well - if, admittedly it's absence causes me slightly less issue for a variety of reasons we've covered over many conversations!

But I find that even the last couple of Star Trek films also suffered from problems in their treatment of the bad guy in the way that you feel Spock was mis-served.

From my perspective and from how the story flows in the new film his decision does not seem inexplicable nor does it ruin the character but that's a slightly different discussion.

But in a similar vein one of the problems with both Insurrection and Nemesis is that at no point were the villains R'uafo or Shinzon really truly made in the film to come to realise their mistake in their plans. For all the notion of the writers in theory having a better take on Star Trek lore/mythology or whatever you want to call it (and even Micheal Piller somehow managed to do this) - both those bad guys were depicted as really learning nothing and continuing with their plans until eventually Riker/Picard did what Kirk did in the new film.

Blow him up with vigour. To an extent this is also the case with TWOK so there is a pattern of having to eliminate the bad guys not through actual understanding and dialogue but with weapons.

Is that how it should be? I guess not, since in TV Trek they managed to do it the other way more often than not. But a movie audience is expecting the bad guy to go down in some way and in this movie-making respect the films have often had trouble reconciling that.

Does it necessarily excuse the new film? No, but I don't entirely see it as being without a precedent in terms of the films and how they play out. The unrepentant villain that ultimately needs to be shot down is pretty standard in a Trek film.
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  #30  
Old 12-31-2009, 10:45 AM
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I agree. I think though the reason we didnt see that more in on the TV is because they tend to tone down the themes for tv in Trek. Except for the red shirts they really didnt want anyone to die on tv to often

I tend to take my tv Trek and movie Trek separately as either one does not translate well to the other in the duplication sence. (does that make sense?) What I mean is Movies tend to need to be flashier and cram more in as that is the only dose you will get for at least 3 years. But tv you have next week to look forward to so they can play out themes over several episodes that would amount to 5+ hours. You cant as easily do that with Movies. Anything over the 2 hour mark and people get antsy. You lose a lot to work with when you are time restricted.

Thats why Im very happy that one of my favorite book series, A Song of Ice and Fire isnt being made into a movie but they are going to make a series on HBO for it having each season be one of the 6 books. So if it does well we will have at least 6 seasons.

You just can convey so much more with TV over a period of time that you will never be able to do in Movies.
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