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  #171  
Old 01-08-2010, 09:28 AM
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janeway72 janeway72 is offline
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That's the best way to prevent AIDS for asexual people or people with a weak libido, but what about the other folks? For them, condoms are still the method to prevent AIDS and STDs.
The second-best is something which interestingly resonates with Christian sexuality moral: monogamy and mutual trust (and perhaps doing at least an AIDS test before you start to have intercourse without condoms).
Many religious people practice abstinence if they are not married. It really is possible.

I would suggest that your second best method (Monogamy, trust and clear HIV tests) is actually the best method to prevent AIDS/HIV and condoms are the second best and obviously the only option short of abstinence for people with the infection.
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  #172  
Old 01-08-2010, 09:36 AM
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It might be possible, but I guess it has more to do with one's sex drive than with one's religious believes.

Well, if you trust someone, he or she has unprotected intercourse outside of the relationship, gets infected and then also infects you, condoms would most likely seem like the first-best method (besides abstinence).
Not a nice thought, but that's why technically condoms are the safer way of protection against AIDS and STDs.
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  #173  
Old 01-08-2010, 09:41 AM
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It might be possible, but I guess it has more to do with one's sex drive than with one's religious believes.

Well, if you trust someone, he or she has unprotected intercourse outside of the relationship, gets infected and then also infects you, condoms would most likely seem like the first-best method (besides abstinence).
Not a nice thought, but that's why technically condoms are the safer way of protection against AIDS and STDs.
I guess when you said trust, I didn't initially think of people being unfaithful in relationships. That's because I think you can control your sex drive no matter how high it is. In the same way you can control your calorie intake no matter what your appetite is like. It's all down to will power. I guess I'm just an old fashioned gal
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  #174  
Old 01-08-2010, 09:42 AM
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Can I just point out that the best way to prevent the spread of AIDS actually is abstinence. I don't agree with the stance of the Catholic Church with regards to condoms. They should be freely available and used properly in Africa, however the Catholic Church does have a point. Abstinence is also the best way to prevent pregnancy and the spread of STIs
Indeed, abstinence is really rather foolproof for pregnancy and health considerations but I think the stance on it also depends on what view one takes about sex.

I've always been less convinced that abstinence is the emotionally healthy option in the long run.

Though funnily enough I'm in the middle of reading a book by the American author Tom Perotta called 'The Abstinence Teacher' just now that involves a story about two people on either side of the line.
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  #175  
Old 01-08-2010, 09:49 AM
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I guess when you said trust, I didn't initially think of people being unfaithful in relationships. That's because I think you can control your sex drive no matter how high it is. In the same way you can control your calorie intake no matter what your appetite is like. It's all down to will power. I guess I'm just an old fashioned gal
I share your perspective, I consider faithfulness as very important and have never cheated a partner, but humans are not perfect. And if it happens once, telling your partner is most likely unwise as it might destroy the relationship.
Just take a look at statistics, the "cheating ratio" (i.e. no open realtionships are considered) is probably somewhere around .2 - .5.

And then there is the difference between sexual and spiritual faithfulness. Some people live happily all of their together, despite knowing of the temporary sexual unfaithfulness of one or both partners. Spiritual faithfulness is simply more relevant to them.
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  #176  
Old 01-08-2010, 09:52 AM
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Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Abstinence makes the d*** grow....er....never mind.
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  #178  
Old 01-08-2010, 10:09 AM
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Richard Dawkins is a man of faith. He has faith in the idea that God does not exist. therefore his reasoning is flawed.
By that reasoning then a person of faith that believes in God has flawed reasoning because they believe in God. How does that make any sense? It's ok for religious people to pick and choose what they believe from their respective dogmas but it's not ok to believe that Dawkins makes some good points in his argument? I don't believe everything the man says but I think some of his points are valid.

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If the guys on the Toronto football team don't want to drink water because they believe it is the will of Allah for them to resist the temptations of eating and drinking during their holy month, I don;t really see why it is a problem.
I don't have a problem with them practicing their faith, what I have a problem with is them wanting to play a game of soccer for 90 minutes and not hydrating themselves because they are practicing their faith. If they want to practice there faith that's fine but they shouldn't be offended if they are told they can't play the game while they are practicing their faith because anyone with any reason can tell you playing a 90 minute game of soccer with out hydrating is a heath risk. Is heath not the reason that pregnant women, the sick, travelers, children under 12 and the elderly are excused from fasting?

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Genesis is an analogy. Of course light comes first which is the fastest moving thing in the universe... funny that. It explains the birth of the universe in terms that people 4000 years ago could understand. I doubt they would have understood string theory.
I agree with you completely on this but the Creationists would not agree with us.

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For most religious people it is a matter of faith and your choice is to believe it or not. And yes, for many religions, if you don't believe it then you are going to hell. I don't understand the problem most atheists have with that statement. If you don't believe in God, you presumably don't believe in hell so why would you find the idea offensive. I don't believe in Santa so it doesn't bother me that some people think that he won't leave you anything at Christmas if you are not good.
I wouldn't call myself an atheist and I don't have any issue with the statements you have brought up above but I can see why a person atheist or not may get offended if someone told them they are going to hell because of what they believe.

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Originally Posted by janeway72 View Post
If you know reasonable and normal religious people, you will find that most of us use our holy books as guides, especially when it comes to morality. I have faith that Jesus was the messiah and that he died to take the punishment for my sins. I also believe that gay people should be allowed to marry, abortion should be an option in some circumstances, women and men should have equal rights and that Obama is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
It's not a matter of "if" I know reasonable and normal religious people but morals can be taught with out religion. Most people understand that it is wrong to kill, steal etc. religious or not.

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Originally Posted by janeway72 View Post
As for the paedophile priests. Being a paedophile has nothing to do with abstinence. Plenty of people practice abstinence and don't abuse children and there are plenty of paedophiles who are getting sex elsewhere. If priests were just struggling with abstinence and couldn't manage it, they would just go out and get laid with a person who was old enough to consent.
Regardless of what caused these pedophile Catholic priests to do what they did the stories I've heard of how the Catholic Church went about dealing with these men is sickening. Just take a look at this documentary.

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Just because there are people who take it to the extreme and there are some horrible people who subscribe to various religions, doesn't negate the possibility that God exists.
You're absolutely right and I never said that.

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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
Of course they get it from the members: no income, no institution.
And many of those members despite their personally beliefs give money every time they go to church which funds these men because that's just what you do at church. "God loves those who are generous with their money." Really when did God give a **** about money?

Last edited by Enterprise Captain : 01-08-2010 at 10:14 AM.
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  #179  
Old 01-08-2010, 10:17 AM
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horatio horatio is offline
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I fund a lot of useful government actions with my taxes and a few not so useful ones. I fund many ordinary workers and perhaps a few child labourers if I buy a new pair of adidas. I would fund a lot of useful charity and a few superfluous old men in Rome if I still were a member of the Catholic Church.

Human institutions in all variations are not perfect. When the government wastes money, we don't have a case for hardcore capitalism, when a company is violating laws, we don't have a case against free markets ... and when a religious organization is doing or saying some questionable things, we don't have a case against (organized) religion.
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  #180  
Old 01-08-2010, 10:22 AM
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I fund a lot of useful government actions with my taxes and a few not so useful ones. I fund many ordinary workers and perhaps a few child labourers if I buy a new pair of adidas. I would fund a lot of useful charity and a few superfluous old men in Rome if I still were a member of the Catholic Church.

Human institutions in all variations are not perfect. When the government wastes money, we don't have a case for hardcore capitalism, when a company is violating laws, we don't have a case against free markets ... and when a religious organization is doing or saying some questionable things, we don't have a case against (organized) religion.
But we the people vote for our leaders the members of the Catholic Church do not vote for the Pope.
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