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  #142  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:56 AM
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Sorry but I have no interest in wasting my time with lunatics, be they creationists or folks like Dawkins who believe that they can disprove God.
Well the person being interviewed by Dawkins is a catholic priest that is also a scientist who also believes in The Big Bang Theory and he does most of the talking. I found the interview very interesting because Father Coyne takes the stance that religion and science can coexist.
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  #143  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:57 AM
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I don't see Richard Dawkins killing religious nuts to "better" the world but I do see religious nuts killing people in the name of "God."
There are also nuts who are not religious killing people. There are religious nuts who don't kill people and are just a bit over zealous. I don't understand how a couple of nutters support Richard Dawkins' assertions re the existence of God/ the truth of Darwinism etc
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  #144  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:01 PM
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Well the person being interviewed by Dawkins is a catholic priest that is also a scientist who also believes in The Big Bang Theory and he does most of the talking. I found the interview very interesting because Father Coyne takes the stance that religion and science can coexist.
Of course they can coexist, the one doesn't have to do anything with the other. Science is about things we can prove (if not yet than at least in principal; empirical work is often a mess, especially in social scienes) whereas religion and to some degree philosophy are about things we can only speculate about and believe in.
So one could claim that these two areas of human culture are perfect complements. There only arise problems when one side is not aware of the limits of its playground and trespasses into the other playground.

If I look into the sky in a clear night, I see large fusion reactors as well as beautiful, mystical, shining stars.

Last edited by horatio : 01-07-2010 at 12:04 PM.
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  #145  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:21 PM
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Exactly. Science is for the material stuff. Religion is for the non-material stuff. Problems arise when we think we only need one in our lives.
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  #146  
Old 01-07-2010, 12:57 PM
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There are also nuts who are not religious killing people. There are religious nuts who don't kill people and are just a bit over zealous. I don't understand how a couple of nutters support Richard Dawkins' assertions re the existence of God/ the truth of Darwinism etc
Your right. The point I'm trying to make is that your focusing on only one point Dawkins is making which for the sake of debate he needs to take a stance but he makes some very interesting arguments leading to that point that even many religious people agree with. I wouldn't put him in the same category of extremists like I would someone who is willing to kill people in the name of "God."
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Of course they can coexist, the one doesn't have to do anything with the other. Science is about things we can prove (if not yet than at least in principal; empirical work is often a mess, especially in social scienes) whereas religion and to some degree philosophy are about things we can only speculate about and believe in.
So one could claim that these two areas of human culture are perfect complements. There only arise problems when one side is not aware of the limits of its playground and trespasses into the other playground.

If I look into the sky in a clear night, I see large fusion reactors as well as beautiful, mystical, shining stars.
I agree with you. I also believe there are too many religious people out there that unfortunately don't know where the limits are and as a result we have the creationists ect. which is why I have a lot of respect for Father Coyne's position and I can also understand many of Dawkins arguments about religion.
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Exactly. Science is for the material stuff. Religion is for the non-material stuff. Problems arise when we think we only need one in our lives.
I think you can live a good life with out religion but not with out science. Just to clarify a little, I believe religion causes a lot of problems not weather someone believes in a God or not.
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  #147  
Old 01-07-2010, 01:11 PM
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Virtually everything that looks like a religious conflict on the surface is in fact a simple struggle for power or resources. Or do you think that Irak vs. Iran is inherently a Sunni-Shia issue or that Israel vs. Palestine is inherently a Jew-Muslim issue? Or even more ridiculous, that the Northern Irleand conflict is inherently a Catholic-Protestant issue?

Most religious folks are decent fellows and when someone is a jerk, is he or she a Jewish or Christian or whatever jerk first or isn't he or she first and above all a jerk?
It is just picking out the foul apples, one could easily point the finger upon any kind of atrocity and decry science because atomic, biological or chemical weapons have been used.

I don't believe in God, I have read more scientific than religious stuff but I am in no way willing to excuse Dawkins's error. It is precisely the same error of the creationists, just mirrored.

Last edited by horatio : 01-07-2010 at 01:14 PM.
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  #148  
Old 01-07-2010, 01:19 PM
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When it comes to the real big questions, like where did everything in the universe come from, nobody has the answers.
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  #149  
Old 01-07-2010, 01:20 PM
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I think you can live a good life with out religion but not with out science. Just to clarify a little, I believe religion causes a lot of problems not weather someone believes in a God or not.
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I believe it is people that cause the problems, not the religions . Not one of the 6 main religions of the world advocate violence towards other human beings. Yes there may be rules about capital punishment but that's a moral dilemma that more than just people of faith have to grapple with. If these religious nuts did not have a religion to latch onto they would find some other philosophy/ ideology/ political viewpoint to grab hold of and find an outlet for their nuttiness. In the same way that addicts often replace one addiction with another. Religious nuts are just obsessive about something - it could just as easily be Star Trek that they were obsessive about

You can live a good life without religion. This is true but you can also live a good life with religion. Dawkins arguments don;t stack up. Because there are some people who do not understand their own religion or tweak it to suit their own sick agenda, doesn't negate the existence of God. Until Dawkins can show me proof that God doesn't exist through a telescope, under a microscope or in a Petrie dish, I'll carry on believing in God. And I am much better qualified than he is to make come to that conclusion as I have a degree in Theology. I'll bow to his superior knowledge in the department of genetics.
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  #150  
Old 01-07-2010, 01:26 PM
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When it comes to the real big questions, like where did everything in the universe come from, nobody has the answers.
Indeed. The simple question "why is something and not nothing?" cannot be answered. Physics doesn't tell us anything about the before-time and religions don't tell us much about the motives of God to create a world.
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