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  #431  
Old 03-15-2008, 05:15 AM
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Saquist Saquist is offline
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Calm down.
Take a deep breath.

Ask yourself what does perversion mean?
Keep in mind i'm Christian.
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Last edited by Saquist : 03-15-2008 at 06:04 AM.
  #432  
Old 03-15-2008, 06:42 AM
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[quote=Saquist;26621]YEAH...
It's for another thread true.
but let me say Religion has been around longer than homosexuality...It's been accepted more than homosexuality and some how how some think after close to 7,000 year it would be gone in the last 300....

quote]

I'm not quite sure where you get your information from, but homomsexuality has been around since the dawn of mankind. I find your stance almost as off-putting as organized religion itself. For instance, the new Pope has just issued a set of 'new sins'... I wonder, did he get a phone number to his god from the bible and call or did he text him.

And as for your dates, around seven thousand years ago the only substantial religion was of that of the Egyptian Pharoahs and they were as diverse as the Greeks. And another thing, Catholic religion, which is the basis for modern Chritianity, is polytheistic. Just think about that for a moment... Now ask your father, son, or holy ghost for something and remember, "No other God before me." Thank you for clearing up your confusing name, perhaps listening would be better than 'Say'ing so much. And reading more than one book gives you a plethora of concepts to draw from; you should try it.

Saquist, my friend, you have been conditioned by the family and/or situation you grew up in. I ask you, how long will it take before you see the truth of that and act accordingly? Do you really believe in the bible literally? If so, you may want to reread it because I think your slave needs beaten...

Last edited by RonSalon : 03-15-2008 at 07:02 AM.
  #433  
Old 03-15-2008, 07:14 AM
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Wow, I go to bed on page 34 and wake up to page 44....lots of action last night! And alot of reading to catch up on!

Interesting discussionsas always, but I do have one gripe. I can't remember now who posted it, but it was something to the extent of calling the administrator to have JasPlun removed from the site?

As ridiculous as I think his comment was (and actually, the first time I read it I thought he was being sarcastic), he shouldn't be blocked from making it.

This is a country founded on free speech, and he is entitled to make that comment. I also don't think he needs to be made to apologize for it. It's his view, and he can state it.

I didn't see it as "hate", and I think that reporting people to the admin should be used if profanity, harsh name calling, or threats are being used.

Oh, and I would now like to exercise my free speech to give my own personal opinion of the comment on that post.....it smacked of immaturity and stupidity.

But thats just my opinion....
  #434  
Old 03-15-2008, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
Okay, Saquist, now I really have enough of your (sory) stupid arrogant and highly ignorant way of debating here. All your posts on and on again put homosexuality into the corner of immorale, crime, sickness and perversion.

Now, I insist you better do some explaining on what harm homosexuality does or I... or I... I mean it... one... two.. three...

Honestly, you cant talk negative about things, demonize them, without explaining whats so bad awfull and evil about it. That is DISCRIMINATION.
Ooh. A threat.

You see that Saquist? You had better change your views to reflect theirs or else.

But no- that's not discrimination.
  #435  
Old 03-15-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Calm down.
Take a deep breath.

Ask yourself what does perversion mean?
Keep in mind i'm Christian.
I am afraid thats not really an answer Saquist. I am not a christian, but I do read the bible (do you?). And as far as I can see it does not state anywhere that homosexuality is a harm to society. All it states is that God is said to hate homosexuality.

Now, even if I assume that to be your picture of God, how do an omnipotent entities likes or dislikes constitute your view upon homosexuality as an illness, an act of immorale or crime?

And I know what perversion means: To turn something to a wrong use.
The definition of perversion needs this something to have a right use. And thats where the definition of perversion is unsientific because it is without meaning. Who intended sexuality to be for what use and how to proove it? Thats why psychology does not or barely use the term anymore.
The thing gets more complicated when talking about what sexuality actually is. The bible does not say anything more then that men should not rest together as men and women do. Not really a usefull definition.

And even if you assume God has intended sexuality to something solely for married man and women, I ask again, what makes you think he is right on the subject and how does that constitute homosexuality to be a harm for society?

And Wal, I am afraid you are not really aware of what discrimination actually is. It means unfair treatment of one group due to prejudicy.

As long as Saquist evades the answer to the question what makes him believe homosexuality is a crime, a desease or something alike I must assume he does not have any argument for that exept his wish to see it so. And that is prejudicy.

When we now debate wether gays should or should not be represented in movies and Saquist is against that, then he denies gays to be represented in public life in the same way as heterosexuals based on nothing else then his prejudicy that homosexuality is a harm to the society.

Again, Saquist, what else then the claim of a few human individuals that God is said to dislike homosexuality makes you come to the conclusion it is a harm to society?

Last edited by Botany Bay : 03-15-2008 at 11:10 AM.
  #436  
Old 03-15-2008, 11:41 AM
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Saquist and BB and repected others-

I am not a beliver, but know enough about theology to know, that it is not man who passes judgements on others, but your God.

Who put YOU (collectively) in charge of decideing what is right or wrong? If there is a God, and it has a problem with it, then it is between the God and the person. Not to be decided by belivers.

I also have a problem with a religon that has be corrupted to the extent to exucse away the bloodiest wars, atrocities.

I guess religious people forget Christ and his teachings of love and accepatnce, even of enemies and those who would be otherwise "non acceptable." He even extended his love to those that killed him, because "They know not what they do."

I would ask all of you, no matter what faith, belief, or non belief you may have, to just accept people. Don't try to paste your veiws on them. Accept them as what they are, fellow humas with a RIGHT to be who they are, no matter how you personally feel about it.

You don't have to like it, just accept it, as you hope they accept you.

Acceptance is what Trek and it's philosophy are about, in the end. Like so many things, people get involved and screw it up and corrupt it.

If this is what we REALLY are, I hope we NEVER get to the stars, and spread biogtry and and intolerance. But maybe in the end it is all that humas really are...if it is...then it's a sad sad day indeed.

I can no longer be in this thead. I tried once to leave, but the nature of what was being said against people who are members of our board was abhorrant to me. I will advise all of you to think about it, and maybe consider doing the same.
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  #437  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:29 PM
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[quote=RonSalon;26659][quote=Saquist;26621]YEAH...
Quote:

I'm not quite sure where you get your information from, but homomsexuality has been around since the dawn of mankind. I find your stance almost as off-putting as organized religion itself. For instance, the new Pope has just issued a set of 'new sins'... I wonder, did he get a phone number to his god from the bible and call or did he text him.
Gosh Goff
Don't me started on him.
But this isn't a religion thread anyway.

Quote:
Saquist, my friend, you have been conditioned by the family and/or situation you grew up in. I ask you, how long will it take before you see the truth of that and act accordingly? Do you really believe in the bible literally? If so, you may want to reread it because I think your slave needs beaten...
My are we presumptuous. I'll pretend you're talking to someone you know.
Please do not expect to many replies using that tone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
I am afraid thats not really an answer Saquist. I am not a christian, but I do read the bible (do you?). And as far as I can see it does not state anywhere that homosexuality is a harm to society. All it states is that God is said to hate homosexuality.
Well my anwere would have been explained if you were intrested in an actual dialogue. And you must read al little closer. I won't argue the meaning of the bible with you. The Bible says they won't inherit his Kingdom. As in won't be around, non present, removed, etc. And yes. I do read daily.

Quote:
Now, even if I assume that to be your picture of God, how do an omnipotent entities likes or dislikes constitute your view upon homosexuality as an illness, an act of immorale or crime?
I don't know if its an illness. Do you think it's an illness?

Quote:
And I know what perversion means: To turn something to a wrong use.
The definition of perversion needs this something to have a right use. And thats where the definition of perversion is unsientific because it is without meaning. Who intended sexuality to be for what use and how to proove it? Thats why psychology does not or barely use the term anymore.
The thing gets more complicated when talking about what sexuality actually is. The bible does not say anything more then that men should not rest together as men and women do. Not really a usefull definition.
Excellent so you know I was not using it improperly. I'm glad we got that cleared up Botany.

Quote:
And even if you assume God has intended sexuality to something solely for married man and women, I ask again, what makes you think he is right on the subject and how does that constitute homosexuality to be a harm for society?
That's about Sovereignty and the right to rule.
Those are different issues.



Quote:
When we now debate wether gays should or should not be represented in movies and Saquist is against that, then he denies gays to be represented in public life in the same way as heterosexuals based on nothing else then his prejudicy that homosexuality is a harm to the society.
Wow...no taxation without representation!

Quote:
Again, Saquist, what else then the claim of a few human individuals that God is said to dislike homosexuality makes you come to the conclusion it is a harm to society?
Your...way of posting...is bit inflamatory. You've been doing a little missrepresentation. I'm not really inclined to have discussion with you on this highly personal manner while you're an attack posture. You'll have to stand down if you want my views and stop playing the Liberal on a Crusade role. It's your choice.
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  #438  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Your...way of posting...is bit inflamatory. You've been doing a little missrepresentation. I'm not really inclined to have discussion with you on this highly personal manner while you're an attack posture. You'll have to stand down if you want my views and stop playing the Liberal on a Crusade role. It's your choice.
You feel attacked by my questions? I am sorry for that. I wasnt aware that critical questions are flaming allready. Where I come from its considered an ambitious dialogue.

So, obviously you deny me an answer to my questions and I find that very sad for the reason that this forces me to keep my prejudicy towards you without any chance to check and perhaps correct it.
  #439  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:48 PM
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Saquist Saquist is offline
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You are misrepresenting my responses, Given one side of my statements and not the other. That is a method of slander. Why should I feel obligated to do any you ask. And now you're attempt to manipulate me.

Why should the discussion continue between us when it seems you're unwilling to disarm? It seems you're only offering conflict.
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  #440  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:54 PM
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I had to check what slander means and it says to slander is to misinterprete and misquote someone intentionally. Did I do so? If so, I am sorry for the mistake and would be glad if you just correct me instead of just going on repeating the very same crypted statements the whole time.

So, you havent said families that do not fit the heteronormative stereotype of our modern society are weak and a sign and perhaps even the cause of most of our societies problems? It wasnt you who stated here that the representation of gays in movies could do harm to the psychology of children, more then the representation of heterosexual love, that is usual in movies?

Again, please just correct me.
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