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  #421  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wal View Post
I wouldn't care if they threw a couple gays in, and also had folk of a more conservative opinion as well- and show them getting along while maintaining differences. But you know that won't happen unless the conservative folk are turned into the bad guy of the episode.

Remember- liberalism is big on tolerance... of liberalism.
Which is almost prejudice in it's self.
A show like they would due would get rating and that's likely the only reason they'd do it...

But puttin the two understandings in is a testiment to what Trek is truely about....That's real Diversity...

I remember someone said the Bible and religion was Gone on Earth in Trek...
Not only was it not true..."Sisko's father quoted it." It was horrible anti religious....

They acted like...there no getting along so lets get rid of one of them. And religion gets the boot...whaaa....
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  #422  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:20 AM
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That's one thing I liked about DS9, it did show a hint of the state of religion in the world of Trek. You didn't get hardly any of it in TNG and then in DS9 it started in explanatives like "My God!!!" and "God help us!!!" and that sort of thing. With Sisko's father you got a look outside the federation which is something I liked quite a bit about DS9, for the first time you weren't seeing this world from the bridge of the flagship of the Federation. You were seeing a glimpse of earth as it truly was, the religions of the earth couldn't die out or pass into mythology in a mere three hundred years, there still must be those who practice and they must at this time live in peace with all the religions of the earth. A true achievement! That would be another thread, but an interesting one.
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  #423  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:27 AM
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I have no problem with religions being featured in Star Trek.

The only thing I would recommend is that completely original religions based upon contemporary and historic Earth religions be created, perhaps as composites.

This would keep Star Trek away from raising unnecessary controversy with real life Prots, Papists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims etc...

It's a headache that Trek doesn't need. Besides, it's better to create original things.
  #424  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Livingston View Post
That's one thing I liked about DS9, it did show a hint of the state of religion in the world of Trek. You didn't get hardly any of it in TNG and then in DS9 it started in explanatives like "My God!!!" and "God help us!!!" and that sort of thing. With Sisko's father you got a look outside the federation which is something I liked quite a bit about DS9, for the first time you weren't seeing this world from the bridge of the flagship of the Federation. You were seeing a glimpse of earth as it truly was, the religions of the earth couldn't die out or pass into mythology in a mere three hundred years, there still must be those who practice and they must at this time live in peace with all the religions of the earth. A true achievement! That would be another thread, but an interesting one.
YEAH...
It's for another thread true.
but let me say Religion has been around longer than homosexuality...It's been accepted more than homosexuality and some how how some think after close to 7,000 year it would be gone in the last 300....

Can you say agenda?!

And yes. That's exactly how I see Sisko's father...a Flagship..representing that conflict isn't the normal state of even Federation citizens let alone Star Fleet. Nice touch Living!
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  #425  
Old 03-15-2008, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
but let me say Religion has been around longer than homosexuality..
LOL

Oh dear. Do you actually BELIEVE the rubbish you post?

I thought the president of Iran talked nonsense, but you sir take the biscuit.

Quote:
.It's been accepted more than homosexuality and some how how some think after close to 7,000 year it would be gone in the last 300....
It isn't gone in Star Trek. References to Earth religions can be found throughout the franchise

Quote:
Can you say agenda?!
No. Just because Star Trek hasn't addressed contemporary institutions like Earth religions directly doesn't mean there is an "agenda". By your logic, since they've never addressed homosexuality, Star Trek must have an anti-gay agenda. They've never addressed whether bottled water is better than tap water, so I guess there must be an anti-water agenda too.
  #426  
Old 03-15-2008, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
There are alot of people Like myself that watch trek because it has more conservative values
Star Trek has liberal, enlightened, humanistic values...not conservatives.
Sorry to destroy your illusion, but for conservative values you watched the wrong show.

Paramount is conservative, but Roddenberry's Star Trek stands for an "evolved" mankind, where all can live equal as they want to live, where the intellect beats prejudices, where you don't interfere in the way of living of others, where diversity is wanted and not feared.

And yes, there even was one TNG episode that showed us that this is not just true for black and white, but also for sexuality: "The Outcast"- the speech at the end based on Oscar Wilde's speech 1895 in london, where he was imprisioned for his homosexuality.
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Last edited by TheTrekkie : 03-15-2008 at 03:58 AM.
  #427  
Old 03-15-2008, 04:27 AM
Andrew86 Andrew86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wal
Supposedly, we all have free will- except homosexuals. for some strange reason, homosexuals are exempt from free will.
Wow. Im standing in the presence of greatness. I should have thought of that. No choice treally makes about as much sense as a cat barking...
Quote:
Quote:
Gays can and do marry. Oh- but not each other. That's where discrimination comes in, right? wrong- because straight same genders can't marry each other either- even if they wanted to.

See? Equal rights and equal responsibilities. Why? Because that what civilized society has created marriage to be such a long time ago.
I am...just...
stymied by the logic.....I never thought of it that way.
You must have run into this discussion before. That was far more thought I and straight forward than I could have written.

I guess it shows there's always someone with a clearer picture than yourself.
No offense, Saquist, but you seem to be in awe of some pretty tired arguments and straw men....
For starters nobody has suggested that gay people lack free will any more than straight people. That little snarky sarcastic comment isn't anything to be wowed by because it isn't based in any kind of reality and therefore ads nothing to debate.

The truth is that no gay man or woman I have ever met has ever said the chose to be gay. Your response to that seems to be but on some hidden secret level they did chose it, but just don't know it! I don't know what definition of choice you are using, but that just sounds like post-modern (and I hope you'll excuse my vulgarity because I can think of no other word with quite the same meaning) 'wank' to me...

And if I were you, I wouldn't be so impressed by the "sure gays can marry... ...the opposite gender" argument. All it means is that gays cannot marry someone they fall in love with and share an intimate relationship with while straight people can. That's simple inequality.
  #428  
Old 03-15-2008, 04:30 AM
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I like to take the example of Voyager.
It didn't even suggest that Tom and B'Elanna would have their child out of wedlock. Recognizing that children need a mother and a father equally. The parents were responsible. Tom made a commitment to his wife and there were no accidents. While Trek does have lots of loose moments and issues with general immorality for the purpose of ratings it manages to keep it mostly in check..(not counting ENTERPRISE)

The family institution is strong in Trek. The marriage bond is still important. There is still the loose and immoral caution-to-the-wind ,one-night-stand of course but it would seem basic family values got strong not weaker. Unlike todays time which is marked by a increasing divorce rate Trek suggest that somehow got it much much stronger.
Even wesely was portrayed as virgin. Worf viewed the bonding of K'Elar as a legitmate bond. Imaging that, Klingons have standard morals too. Even Vorik found sex with a Hologram perverse like masterbation. Not even a sign of an abortion issue.

I love it.
It's no illusion that Trek show mutal coexistence of ideals and not just the immoral ones. Good Morals just pop up in Trek right along side those liberal ones every once and a while. Nothing massive that's will split the atom or anything just common sense.
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Last edited by Saquist : 03-15-2008 at 05:04 AM.
  #429  
Old 03-15-2008, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by angryibanezguy View Post
Agreed, making sexuality an issue would point out a difference that need not be mentioned, its like.....water...you know someone drinks it... who cares what flavor they put in it ya know?.. its still water, and it still has no place on the bridge of the enterprise, hetoro, gay, whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
I'd consider the movie a whole lot MORE palatable if they left peoples' sexual orientations the hell out of it, and just told us all a good story. And from a story perspective, tossing in a gay character just to have a gay character would be death imo.
I know it really does feel like an intrusion. I certainly don't want to be seen by my friends watching seens like that. But so you skip an episode and it gets lower rating? Does it really matter? We know that episodes won't have any real action in it. I'm with you but Sex sales..no matter if it's gay or normal sex.

Lets put it this way. I refuse to watch Broke Back Mountain. If this movie feels the need to add that kind of sexual contact I will never see it, free or otherwise.
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  #430  
Old 03-15-2008, 05:07 AM
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Okay, Saquist, now I really have enough of your (sory) stupid arrogant and highly ignorant way of debating here. All your posts on and on again put homosexuality into the corner of immorale, crime, sickness and perversion.

Now, I insist you better do some explaining on what harm homosexuality does or I... or I... I mean it... one... two.. three...

Honestly, you cant talk negative about things, demonize them, without explaining whats so bad awfull and evil about it. That is DISCRIMINATION.
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