[rick0324]

Hey i noticed that in the book Star Trek Titan, the first book of the 4 there is a character who is gay.
In the episode 110100 from TNG also has characters who are in a way bisexual.
Just thought i'd fill ya in

[Elizadolots]

Hi, rick! that's good to know...and it does prove the point that the Star Trek fandom will not shy away from gay characters...so, why not put it on screen?

I'll also mention that there was an episode of DS9 where Dax met up with a woman who had been her lover when she was a man...they were still in love...love transcended gender. I mentioned it before, but I think people got caught up in the Next Gen Trill episode so missed it...but that show very clearly illustrated love of the soul without regard to "parts". They deserve credit for it, even if it sort of catered to the male audience's "hot chick's doing it" jones.

[Saquist]

Originally Posted by Andrew86

Hey is there a section of this forum where you could perhaps start a thread exclusively to discuss gay parenting, and keep this one about the movie? Just a thought...

As you wish.

There have been quite a few posts since I started this the other day. Most of the opposition seems along the theme that including a gay character for the sake of it is just pandering to a minority group and it would be pointless. eg.:



To NitemareTD I'd point out that before Star Trek we had never seen, for example, a black woman holding a position of respect and authority. Sure, Star Trek could have simply had a purely white male cast. It probably would have run one or two seasons and never been heard from again. The reason Star Trek is still around is because it inspired its viewers by being inclusive.

I wonder if NitemareTD - had he been around when Gene was deciding to put a black woman on the bridge - would have piped up with his witless exaggerated sarcasm at the idea and told Gene to "SHUT UP"? Would NitemareTD have been advocating an entirely white male cast?

It is a mistake to equate a Gay Rights Issue with Human Rights.
One is behavior the other clearly a matter of humanity.
The Black and Minority issue was directly related with racial hate.
And a lot of pain blood and destruction was the result of that hate.
This is nothing in comparison. It doesn't even compare to Women's rights.
A long and ugly sortid conflict through out history.

There is no way there is enough similarity between the three to make such a postulation of equality.

[quote=Elizadolots;25324]Ah....so, committed couples who happen to be of the same gender constitute "lewd behavior"...is that your argument?

No, I did not bother to watch a rehash of a show I never watched in the first place...why? Was it disgusting because someone was gay?

I femal FBI detective was sharing a bed with another women, an apparent one night stand. Do you agree that such behavior is appropriate for viewing?
Does the suggestion these relationships are often one night stands? Does the issue even concern you?

You may not have distilled your thoughts into those words, but that is what your post said to me.

If My post didn't say it then logicallly I didn't say it.

"increasing liberty"..meaning women have been allowed more freedoms? and, this is selfish, you say. Women having the ability to be independent and so not tied to there husbands if they are loathsome is selfish.

I'm afraid I can not find these conclusions in my post either Eliz.

So...homosexuality is a wrong on the same scale as adultery? Or, men are horn dogs and if they don't have women to reign them in they'll behave appallingly?

Biblically homosexuality has always been on the same scale as adultery, Yes. I have biblical perspective and thus logically that perspecitve has reasoning which is based on a propper family unit.

Your latter question I find odd.
I don't know what you mean by "women to reign them"

Ah...see...I have no idea what that means. Since I've had plenty of wine, I can only imagine the problem is you've had too little rest...

Ultimately it means that the Thread owner wishes the topic to be the object of discussion. I would create another Thread in the off topic forum if you like.

Otherwise It's been an intresting discussion.

[tejdog1]

Well, f***. Hetero couples NEVER have one night stands. NEVER EVER. Shucks, Ma.

How old are your kids, if you don't mind my asking? And why not let them make up their own minds about what is and is not wrong and immoral?

My parents NEVER ONCE told me not to drink, or smoke, or do drugs. Yet, I have never smoked anything, never done drugs, and I am most certainly not a drinker (one drink per wedding).

[tejdog1]

Oh...and this...

The Black and Minority issue was directly related with racial hate.
And a lot of pain blood and destruction was the result of that hate.
This is nothing in comparison. It doesn't even compare to Women's rights.


Matthew Shepard much? And so many gay bashing crimes? The only reason it's not as newsworthy is because there's alot of people who just do not care what happens to gay men. Lesbians are tolerated. It's frankly disgusting and sickening.

[Elizadolots]

Saquist, you are simply parading your ignorance.

Science has shown that there are physical differences that distinguish heterosexual people from homosexual people. Most of this is in the thalmus (part of the brain...hit google if you don't recognize the word).

There is also statistical data to suggest a physical difference. The one that jumps to mind is that a much higher percentage of gays are left handed than the norm. This is also true of people who are nearsighted and people who have allergies. The theory is that there is a connection between the genes that cause myopia (nearsightedness), allergies and sexuality and "handedness" (and, please....don't even think you're going to argue that handedness is a choice, it is not).

[HRH The KING]

King, calling someones argument rubbish and gibberish isn't analytical. It is argumentative. Therefore in my eyes you have forfieted your right to discuss this logically before me.

Enjoy your forum experience though I wish you well.

Dude, I have utterly destroyed your arguments.

My advice is to quit while you are behind.

[Andrew86]

Originally Posted by saquist

It is a mistake to equate a Gay Rights Issue with Human Rights.
One is behavior the other clearly a matter of humanity.

Personally I believe that the opportunity to experience the joys of a loving meaningful relationship is and important part of what humanity is all about.

The Black and Minority issue was directly related with racial hate.

And you don't think there is homophobic hate too? I dare say you can't have had too many conversations with gay friends. You will fortunately never know the feeling of growing up as a child and gradually coming to the realisation that you are something defined by those around you as evil. Historically gays have been hated by just about everyone! And just recently we seem to be experiencing a spate of homophobic murders around America. In large parts of the world homosexuality is an offense that carries the death penalty. Homosexuality had been illegal in the US for a long period.

And a lot of pain blood and destruction was the result of that hate.
This is nothing in comparison. It doesn't even compare to Women's rights.
A long and ugly sortid conflict through out history.

Gays are abused every day. Gays are fired from the US military simply for the crime of being honest about the gender of their significant other. Gay suicide rates are significantly higher than those of the general population. And, as you have been pulling the "won't somebody please think of the children" argument in your posts, have you ever thought for a moment about the children who start to realise that they are gay and cannot do anything about it? The statistics show that a good number of them kill themselves.

We define ourselves as a culture by our artistic output. When we say "sorry, you can't be in our movies, on our TV screens, etc", we are saying "we don't really consider you part of society."

[Livingston]

wow, this is some discussion goin' on here! Well I'll throw my two cents in. The way I see it, in the Star Trek Universe homosexuals would be seen completely equal with heterosexuals, there are no longer prejudices, skin color, gender is a non-issue, people grew up, they moved on, people are people, I don't see how sexual orientation should be different. It was never touched on directly in the series. The only way I could see it coming into Trek is if it served the story, that is the main point of writing in a story line that deals with this issue, but as far as how homosexuality is dealt with in the time of Trek, within the universe of Trek, I can't imagine it'd be an issue. Some people brought up biblical references to homosexuality, are we going to see that in Trek. Are we going to have characters guided by a religious faith that represents a large portion of Earth's population? If so, there would undoubtably be conflict, and I doubt the utopia depicted in Trek could exist if we still dealt with these issues in the time of Trek. If that offends anyone, I did not mean any offense and apologize but, in Trek religion is as enigmatic a topic as homosexuality, but that perhaps is another thread.

[Saquist]

That's very well said Living.
I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.