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  #121  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:13 AM
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He was, but he's the "notable exception" I was referring to.

The Pakleds, fat Klingons, Worf's foster brother, etc. Most of the "heavy" characters we've seen are morons, lazy or just out of their mind.
  #122  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:15 AM
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And I just tryed to adress the argument often expressed that a gay character in Trek could upset people and thus should be forced out of the story. It doesnt do any good for any story to force anything. Stories must develop pretty natural to be convincing and feel real. A blindfold doesnt help the scriptwriter to achieve that.
Basic to the history of Trek is fighting against an established idea of what is acceptable. Remember, NBC had early publicity shots retouched to normalize Spock's look because they feared the audience would be put off by an alien. It would be cowardly and offensive to the very idea of Star Trek to keep that blindfold on and pretend gay people don't exist.
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  #123  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:18 AM
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Eliza-

Again, well said!
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  #124  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
Remember, NBC had early publicity shots retouched to normalize Spock's look because they feared the audience would be put off by an alien. It would be cowardly and offensive to the very idea of Star Trek to keep that blindfold on and pretend gay people don't exist.
I just love this story for many reasons.

First, because we fans got told so often, that the human-like appearance of aliens in TOS was mainly due to budget reasons. The whole background story of Spock indicates something else: A time where many whites where disgusted by the look of blacks or mongolians... how do you think they felt about a redskinned alien with goatfeet and a deviltail? Because thats what Spock was supposed to look like.

They toned that down to pointed ears and a page-haircut. How exotic!

But even that was to much for the sensible audience to take, in the eyes of the network. Spock became one of the most beloved and iconic characters in movie history. And so did ET, Chewbacka and others.

By the way, the sentence "to cast characters sensible to the feelings and habits of the audience" was the crypted way of saying "whites only".

Now speaking of gay characters we still have this argument: Be sensible.

Is progress an illusion? On depressing rainy sundays I often tend to think so.

PS: A last sidenote... If Charlie Chaplin would have taken investors fear of the feelings of the audience serious he never could have done "The Great Dictator", one of the most bold stands of hollywood history against inhuman ignorance and intollerance.

Last edited by Botany Bay : 03-12-2008 at 10:26 AM.
  #125  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
"Heavier" characters . I think all to heavy Starfleet officers would be a bit unrealistic anyway due to 23rd century food and Starfleet duty. But agreed, I am also a bit tired of the clichee.
This is the time for some general criticism!

Oh and for the record, Scotty wasn't heavy. He was only robust! I insist. No you didn't say anything about it, I know, I'm just lamenting in advance. You see, people are always so quick to point out how sturdy he was without keeping in mind that he really didn't lose his middle until he was way past his sixties. Even my super-sportive Dad lost his middle when he turned sixty (unfortunately he didn't get older than that inspite of being super fit all his life) But that's life and that's age and we have to accept it.

I loved all the characters, no matter what age, no matter how fit they were. Because in my eyes they only added pounds, added wisdom and whit and they never lost quality. Never did they lose their swagger in all those years. People who say that Uhura in Star Trek V looked like a sumo ringer are rather insensitive. Towards me, for example, because if Nichelle looks like a sumo ringer then I look like ten. You know, thank you very much.

Yes, a sixty year old woman doesn't have legs like Allie McBeal (sp???) because somebody with a severe eating disorder either recovers or never gets that old. That's the harsh truth. I found Nichelle's legs super beautiful in all her performances. Her character always remained endearing never turned into a cliche, regardless of how much weight she might have showed on the scale.

Scales are dumb. Humand beings should know better.
  #126  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:32 AM
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I couldnt agree more, Sarah.

My sentence about 23rd century food and Starfleet duty was pointed at an image that only I had in my head: Twenty young overweighted Redshirts on there first adventure tour.

Would look silly and would not be convincing, would it.

A sixty year old Captain Scott is something else.

But, no matter what it looks like... well, again, I agree with you.
  #127  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
I couldnt agree more, Sarah.

My sentence about 23rd century food and Starfleet duty was pointed at an image that only I had in my head: Twenty young overweighted Redshirts.

Would look silly and would not be convincing, would it.

A sixty year old Captain Scott is something else.

But, no matter what it looks like... well, again, I agree with you.
And here I think, again, your statement from before would be very fitting. Don't force it! But let it be, if it is...

I hope I didn't ruin your statement now. It was a good statement, a good, prosperous thought
  #128  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:44 AM
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So....what about a sock puppet charater in the movie??? LOL!
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  #129  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarah James View Post
Scales are dumb. Humand beings should know better.
Amen, Sarah.
  #130  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:49 AM
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So....what about a sock puppet charater in the movie??? LOL!
Wonderful! Now you planted an image of Lamb Chop into my head. First Schwarzenegger now Lamb Chop...Blimey!
lol
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