[DNA-1842]

Originally Posted by samwiseb

I agree as well. The battles in TWOK were intense in a way that they will never be again because of the 'slowness' factor. No one would ever even think of designing action sequences to be slower than they were in prior movies, or of not making them faster. And that is unfortunate. Because the slow burn in TWOK is what makes it so effective.

My earliest memories of Star "Track" II, long before I even knew there was a TV series behind it all, were of how horrifying the explosions and collateral damage were. Even though I thought the ships looked 'cheap' because they were essentially flying saucers, the shots of people with burns on their faces were frightening. I didn't want to look.

It's not about how fast it is. It's about the pauses and silences, and the reflection, camaraderie and introspection. It's about the nautical 'ping' in the background (requires the ships to be 'submerged' inside a nebula; it wouldn't sound right if we heard it earlier in the film). It's about the very slow (what were they traveling, 35mph?) pass between Ent and Reliant in deep space, even though interstellar distances should make such rendezvous impractical if not impossible. It's about Khan clasping his hands and titling his head to the side, because he forgets he's supposed to be looking at a television screen.

And it will never be that way again. Because Hollywood "can you top this?" production mentality won't allow for it. (Although Meyer can be commended for breaking convention again in TUC and having weapons pierce the hull even though shields were supposedly up. It wasn't as intense as TWOK, but it still seemed new).

My problem is that it either should have been a longer, more drawn out sequence, more waiting, more near-misses; or it should have been faster. For the amount of stuff that happened, there wasn't enough tension, not enough waiting. There is this build up! And then it is over too quickly...

It's a good sequence, in a good film, with good dialogue. They just did it wrong. We can blame Hollywood and limited film times if you like.

[kevin]

I tend to disagree they did it wrong, but certainly today's audiences are used to such sequences being a bigger part of a film than they were then and certainly portrayed more kinetically.

The thing is, as Sam alludes to, to speed up the battle would be to lose the point of it. It isn't about the two ships duking it out by the end in some energetic manner. It's about the two aging men playing cat and mouse with each other inside the ships.

I think they did it just fine because the manner of the battle actually fits with some of the themes in the film.

[omegaman]

When it comes to movies: We should not judge or compare what has gone before by the standards we employ today.

[DNA-1842]

Originally Posted by kevin

I tend to disagree they did it wrong, but certainly today's audiences are used to such sequences being a bigger part of a film than they were then and certainly portrayed more kinetically.

The thing is, as Sam alludes to, to speed up the battle would be to lose the point of it. It isn't about the two ships duking it out by the end in some energetic manner. It's about the two aging men playing cat and mouse with each other inside the ships.

I think they did it just fine because the manner of the battle actually fits with some of the themes in the film.

Originally Posted by omegaman

When it comes to movies: We should not judge or compare what has gone before by the standards we employ today.

Making the sequence faster would have been a wrong choice as well. (I merely presented this for the Rule of Three: Fast, Slower, Slowest.)

What I'm comparing it to is 2001: A Space Odyssey(I know, I know, unfair). It should have been this long, slow burning scene. Not some middle-paced, bit slow but not too much scene that has tension-laden dialogue but with pauses that are not long enough to back it up.

It should have felt as if they were there for hours. Waiting... Anticipating...

A bit like a Shatner sentence. You never know how long it is going to be, or when the next word will make an appearance.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

My opinion remains the same, I think those were some of the best battle sequences in all of Trek. Very well done in my opinion, and not much rivals them. The opening sequence in the new film with the Kelvin does.

[kevin]

While we Khan't tell yet who the main baddie is, there may at least be something familiar on the starboard bow...........

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/star-tr...-movie-awards/

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Cool,!

[martok2112]

Q'apla!

[Saquist]

Frankly none of the movies have the best battle scenes. That belongs Largely and undeniably to DS9 specifically Way of the Warrior.

I like the Battle of the Mutara Nebula but it doesn't hold a candle to siege-ing DS9.
The Kelvin's battle with the Narada was ...frankly pathetic to many concessions and too much stupidity in handing a captain over to an ememy willingly. Bad writing can't be part of a great battle.

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by samwiseb

I agree as well. The battles in TWOK were intense in a way that they will never be again because of the 'slowness' factor. No one would ever even think of designing action sequences to be slower than they were in prior movies, or of not making them faster. And that is unfortunate. Because the slow burn in TWOK is what makes it so effective.

My earliest memories of Star "Track" II, long before I even knew there was a TV series behind it all, were of how horrifying the explosions and collateral damage were. Even though I thought the ships looked 'cheap' because they were essentially flying saucers, the shots of people with burns on their faces were frightening. I didn't want to look.

It's not about how fast it is. It's about the pauses and silences, and the reflection, camaraderie and introspection. It's about the nautical 'ping' in the background (requires the ships to be 'submerged' inside a nebula; it wouldn't sound right if we heard it earlier in the film). It's about the very slow (what were they traveling, 35mph?) pass between Ent and Reliant in deep space, even though interstellar distances should make such rendezvous impractical if not impossible. It's about Khan clasping his hands and titling his head to the side, because he forgets he's supposed to be looking at a television screen.

And it will never be that way again. Because Hollywood "can you top this?" production mentality won't allow for it. (Although Meyer can be commended for breaking convention again in TUC and having weapons pierce the hull even though shields were supposedly up. It wasn't as intense as TWOK, but it still seemed new).

When I animate my space battles, the capital ships move slow, lumbering, and menacing....and if starfighters are involved, then I'll let them handle the faster paced, darting fighting. Skwoooo Hollywood on that notion!