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View Poll Results: Will JJ's KHAN be as good as the original or better?
I think it will be as good as the original 8 80.00%
I think it will be better than the original 2 20.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 05-26-2012, 04:25 PM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
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Wasn't Khan 'confirmed'/'officialized'/whatever in the same post that also 'confirmed' Nimoy's return?

And no comments made since, even by Nimoy himself, seem to corroborate that story.

So even though I pretty much bought it at the time, I'm back to doubting Khan again. Sure, I also don't want it to be true. But I also doubt it apart from that.

All the Khan talk so far has come from obsessive fans, from media sources largely made up of obsessive fans, and from worried fans not wanting to believe the rumors of media outlets made up of obsessive fans. And this is having a continuous, nonstop reverb/feedback effect so tremendous that even people staring right at it cannot, cannot see it as being, possibly, nothing more than just and only that.

While the folks at Bad Robot, who are already known for liking to keep things tightly under wrap (we still don't even have a name for the movie hey), are (hopefully) getting a good laugh as they let slip rumors of who they considered casting, because even in the age of internet scrutiny they're able to keep a tighter lid on things than Bennett's team could back in the day.
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  #52  
Old 05-26-2012, 09:03 PM
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It's certainly possible that the Khan talk is not true. As you say, nothing official has ever come out on the subject.
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  #53  
Old 05-26-2012, 11:03 PM
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I think there's a very good chance Cumberbatch IS playing a character that we have seen in the previous TOS stories, but as I said myself three years ago, I'll wait for the official confirmation direct from the studio. Then take it from there.
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  #54  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:50 AM
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I watched TWoK recently. It is good, but the pacing is really bad - some sequences flit by really quickly and some seem to drag on much more slowly. And the music often sort of ignored what was happening for its main themes. (And the music was not a patch on First Contact.)

The dialogue is good, the plot is good, most of the acting was good(no nuance from Shatner). The action sequences were... inconsistent. And mostly quite underdramatic compared to the tension in the dialogue.

But you know, Orci has a point when he talked about the stories being Spock's, but seen from Kirk's perspective. TWoK was a Kirk story, because it featured him heavily, but really Spock's "journey" was a much more interesting and developed one. I mean, to make it more interesting for Kirk, they had to give him a long lost son. Okay.

I still like the film.
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  #55  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:54 AM
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I find the pacing of the film is fine myself, I think it's just that to get the story up and running requires some dog's dinner style arranging (the heavy convenience that the two most important people in the Genesis project just happen to be his ex and his lost son, and that's just whose project Khan bumps right into - it's not the most elegant set up) until you get to Enterprise and Reliant's first encounter and then it gets it's wind.
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  #56  
Old 05-27-2012, 01:01 PM
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The battles in Star Trek II were some of the best in Trek history. They were able to create tension and a sense of danger. And they did this by very deliberately taking the "Shields" out of the equation. Khan's first strike comes before Kirk can get his shields up, Kirk's counter attack comes after stripping Reliant of their shields. The second battle happens in the nebula, ensuring neither party has the benefit of shields.

This has the effect of making every shot lethal, one wrong move and your dead. Far better than the typical Star Trek battle, there isn't a whole lot of tension in "Shields down to 67%".
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  #57  
Old 05-27-2012, 01:35 PM
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Oh, the whole second ha;f of the film was very good, and tension-filled and excellent - it just could have been excecuted to make it feel more like that. The ideas were all there, and the excecution was almost there.
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  #58  
Old 05-27-2012, 01:51 PM
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I guess that's where we disagree, I thought they executed those battles very well. As I said, I believe them to be some of the very best in all of Trek. The new movie did a fantastic job with that too.
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  #59  
Old 05-27-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
The battles in Star Trek II were some of the best in Trek history. They were able to create tension and a sense of danger. And they did this by very deliberately taking the "Shields" out of the equation. Khan's first strike comes before Kirk can get his shields up, Kirk's counter attack comes after stripping Reliant of their shields. The second battle happens in the nebula, ensuring neither party has the benefit of shields.

This has the effect of making every shot lethal, one wrong move and your dead. Far better than the typical Star Trek battle, there isn't a whole lot of tension in "Shields down to 67%".
I can agree with these points, wholeheartedly.
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  #60  
Old 05-29-2012, 02:35 AM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
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I agree as well. The battles in TWOK were intense in a way that they will never be again because of the 'slowness' factor. No one would ever even think of designing action sequences to be slower than they were in prior movies, or of not making them faster. And that is unfortunate. Because the slow burn in TWOK is what makes it so effective.

My earliest memories of Star "Track" II, long before I even knew there was a TV series behind it all, were of how horrifying the explosions and collateral damage were. Even though I thought the ships looked 'cheap' because they were essentially flying saucers, the shots of people with burns on their faces were frightening. I didn't want to look.

It's not about how fast it is. It's about the pauses and silences, and the reflection, camaraderie and introspection. It's about the nautical 'ping' in the background (requires the ships to be 'submerged' inside a nebula; it wouldn't sound right if we heard it earlier in the film). It's about the very slow (what were they traveling, 35mph?) pass between Ent and Reliant in deep space, even though interstellar distances should make such rendezvous impractical if not impossible. It's about Khan clasping his hands and titling his head to the side, because he forgets he's supposed to be looking at a television screen.

And it will never be that way again. Because Hollywood "can you top this?" production mentality won't allow for it. (Although Meyer can be commended for breaking convention again in TUC and having weapons pierce the hull even though shields were supposedly up. It wasn't as intense as TWOK, but it still seemed new).
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