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  #21  
Old 11-20-2009, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Howlin' Wolf View Post
M-M-M-Max Headroom. Ever heard Paranoimia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YubzvkNh77w

I don't particularly like DS9 til the Dominion War starts then it gets interesting, but that's me. Until it showed us a war it never improved upon or really added to the Star Trek Universe. Pretty much they sat on a space station and goofed off in runabouts. But the actors give it their all and in the absence of TV Trek you should enjoy yourself.
I don't agree with that at all. The Dominion war started relatively late in the series, and I really don't understand why people would only like that part of the show if they didn't like it before, when it was the same except for the fact that there was a war going on.

IMO season 2 - when the show found its way - was one of DS9's best, and that was right before the Dominion even started playing a role in the show (technically it was first mentioned and first appeared in season 2). One of DS9's best episodes was most certainly Duet, which was from (otherwise weak and too TNG-derivative) season 1. I don't see how anyone can love DS9 and not appreciate episodes like Emissary, Duet, In The Hands of the Prophets, Necessary Evil, The Maquis, Cardassians, The Wire, Second Skin, which are all pure and classic DS9, and have absolutely nothing to do with the Dominion.

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Pretty much they sat on a space station and goofed off in runabouts.
That's a very silly and incorrect description. You may as well say that during the war they just sat on the station or sat on the Defiant and blew up stuff here and there. Or that the crews in other shows pretty much just sat on the ship and goofed about on a few planets.

DS9 was about so much more than the war. It was just one of the main storylines. If anything, the rebuilding of Bajor after the Cardassian occupation, the relations between Federation, Bajor and Cardassia, the internal strife on Cardassia itself, and Sisko's double role as both Starfleet commander and religious figure/Emissary of the Prophets, were more long-standing and prevailing themes of the show. And let's not forget the Maquis, who were used much better on DS9 than on VOY, even though they were created for the latter show.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2009, 01:48 AM
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That's a very silly and incorrect description. You may as well say that during the war they just sat on the station or sat on the Defiant and blew up stuff here and there. Or that the crews in other shows pretty much just sat on the ship and goofed about on a few planets.
Now see, you yourself are saying that they did exactly what the other crews in the other series have done. And they did just sit on the station unless they were goofing in those over sized shuttles called Runabouts (a name commonly used for pleasure craft). Then they went and got a starship to cruise around in. That was original. Now at some point they pulled a Monty Python and did do something completely different...........what was it?..........oh that's right they had a full scale war. Other than the tedium of life on a space station during peacetime I don't feel that the show added anything seriously new and different until the war "but that's me." If my opinion rubbed you the wrong way, well..............rubba dub dub.
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  #23  
Old 11-20-2009, 01:49 AM
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I've been re-watching DS9 reruns in the UK stripped over five weeknights with the episodes being shown again as a marathon on Sunday afternoons. And it's been great, last night I watched the finale to Season 5 'Call to Arms'!

But I do agree with DevilEyes, there are some great episodes in the early seasons and you appreciate the backstory more if you've watched from the beginning, rather than just the slam-bang action of the Dominion War arc in the later years.
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2009, 01:55 AM
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But I do agree with DevilEyes, there are some great episodes in the early seasons and you appreciate the backstory more if you've watched from the beginning, rather than just the slam-bang action of the Dominion War arc in the later years.
I didn't dispute any of that. I basically said I didn't see anything new or different til they showed us something we'd never seen before which was the Federation in a full scale conflict.
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:35 AM
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One could claim that there is a certain pattern in TNG-ENT. The first season is fairly forgetable (compare this to TOS!), the second season is either perceived as boring or as superb and in the third of fourth season the show heads into more epic territory, be it stuff like "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "The Best of Both Worlds" in TNG, the Dominion War in DS9, the Borg stories in VOY or the Xindi conflict and the dawn of the Romulan War in ENT.

To go a bit into the second seasons: TNG's 2nd season has a lot of horrible episodes but also some great-lonely-out-there-doing-some-real-exploring stuff (when the show became bigger, the galaxy became smaller) and DevilEyes has already pointed out how the 2nd season of DS9 went into the Bajorans and Cardassians.
VOY and ENT have no such tendencies, but IMO they are the best season of each respective show ... and I am sure many people will disagree with me on that.
Second seasons, a love or hate thingy.

Last edited by horatio : 11-20-2009 at 05:51 AM.
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2009, 06:41 AM
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Now see, you yourself are saying that they did exactly what the other crews in the other series have done. And they did just sit on the station unless they were goofing in those over sized shuttles called Runabouts (a name commonly used for pleasure craft). Then they went and got a starship to cruise around in. That was original. Now at some point they pulled a Monty Python and did do something completely different...........what was it?..........oh that's right they had a full scale war. Other than the tedium of life on a space station during peacetime I don't feel that the show added anything seriously new and different until the war "but that's me." If my opinion rubbed you the wrong way, well..............rubba dub dub.
There, you said it yourself. It was the first Trek show set on a station. Which meant that they couldn't just go to another planet and push the reset button on what happened last week. Bajor and Cardassia were there all the time, they wouldn't be gone by the next week when Our Federation Heroes fly off to another adventure and meet another wacky alien race. And - surprise, surprise! - this time the main cast included people who were not Starfleet members or Federation citizens at all - Kira, Odo, Quark.

There, you have two huge new things that DS9 brought to Trek, long before the war.

If that rubs you the wrong way, rubba dubba dub.


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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
One could claim that there is a certain pattern in TNG-ENT. The first season is fairly forgetable (compare this to TOS!), the second season is either perceived as boring or as superb and in the third of fourth season the show heads into more epic territory, be it stuff like "Yesterday's Enterprise" and "The Best of Both Worlds" in TNG, the Dominion War in DS9, the Borg stories in VOY or the Xindi conflict and the dawn of the Romulan War in ENT.
Technically, the war only starts in season 5 finale. Before that, it's, at worst, cold war.

I know some people who think that season 1 was VOY's best, or at least one of the best.
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  #27  
Old 11-20-2009, 06:44 AM
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I should stress that to me the war basically starts when they meet the Dominion cause it's made perfectly clear that Federation influence will not be tolerated. That's season two isn't it?
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2009, 07:07 AM
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There, you have two huge new things that DS9 brought to Trek, long before the war.
There's enough aliens in Trek that adding them to the cast is neither huge nor new it's just seeing the same ones more often. I would consider the station new and different if it weren't there out of necessity seeing as how exploration at the edge of Federation space had been done twice already.

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If that rubs you the wrong way, rubba dubba dub.
That depends on the kind of lotion and which direction your gonna go in.
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  #29  
Old 11-20-2009, 08:15 AM
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That depends on the kind of lotion and which direction your gonna go in.

I'm sorry that was out of line, my apologies. I'm leaving it posted though cause I'd rather say I'm sorry than hide behind an edit.
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  #30  
Old 11-20-2009, 09:42 AM
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Actually, I think around second season DS9 is when we start seeing little things that eventually lead up to the Dominion War in latter seasons. So it's a really good build up.

For me, DS9 got really interesting when Worf joined the cast....and we saw the station defend itself against an armada of Klingon warships (including the K't'inga's ....hell yeah!)..in "The Way of the Warrior". We are also introduced to one of my all time favorite Klingons, Martok.
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