[Roysten]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

Again, as I've said before, KES was a good idea, poorly executed.

I agree, was an original idea for a character, would have had a great arc if done properly with her potentially dying of old age by the end of the series.

I think her best use was in Cold Fire, I wish they'd made a bit more of that episode really, after everyone was waiting for the 2nd caretaker to make an appearance it felt a bit like, 'is that it?...'

[horatio]

I prefer Kes because she is cute, innocent, warm and friendly (especially to "lower lifeforms" like the Doctor) and, last but not least, curious and eager to learn. She is THE Trek character who made the words "explore strange new worlds ..." her own.

I agree that Seven brought more conflict into the show but at the same time she dominated the show too much alongside Janeway and many stories became a bit too blunt, direct-in-your-face-like, compared to the quieter influence of Kes.
So the Janeway-Seven-show point shows that Kes wasn't the only characters who was badly or underused.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Roysten

I agree, was an original idea for a character, would have had a great arc if done properly with her potentially dying of old age by the end of the series.

I think her best use was in Cold Fire, I wish they'd made a bit more of that episode really, after everyone was waiting for the 2nd caretaker to make an appearance it felt a bit like, 'is that it?...'

I couldn't agree more.

[janeway72]

I don't quite see why they couldn't have kept Kes and introduced Seven. Apart from budgetary restraints

[horatio]

Although I doubt that they had the idea already in mind when they changed the characters, the Doctor became Seven's teacher. This would not have worked if Kes had still been his teacher.

[jla1987]

Originally Posted by horatio

I prefer Kes because she is cute, innocent, warm and friendly (especially to "lower lifeforms" like the Doctor) and, last but not least, curious and eager to learn. She is THE Trek character who made the words "explore strange new worlds ..." her own.

I agree that Seven brought more conflict into the show but at the same time she dominated the show too much alongside Janeway and many stories became a bit too blunt, direct-in-your-face-like, compared to the quieter influence of Kes.
So the Janeway-Seven-show point shows that Kes wasn't the only characters who was badly or underused.

I agree with your assessment. I think the Doctor also had too many blunt, direct-in-you-face-like episodes as well, especially after Kes' departure. Led to the stagnation of the series IMO.

[chator]

Originally Posted by janeway72

I don't quite see why they couldn't have kept Kes and introduced Seven. Apart from budgetary restraints

2 pretty young blondes on the same show? Actually, i think if Kes had been human, she could have been Seven's best teacher.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by horatio

I prefer Kes because she is cute, innocent, warm and friendly (especially to "lower lifeforms" like the Doctor) and, last but not least, curious and eager to learn. She is THE Trek character who made the words "explore strange new worlds ..." her own.

I agree that Seven brought more conflict into the show but at the same time she dominated the show too much alongside Janeway and many stories became a bit too blunt, direct-in-your-face-like, compared to the quieter influence of Kes.
So the Janeway-Seven-show point shows that Kes wasn't the only characters who was badly or underused.

I did miss Jennifer Lien as an actress on the show. I had always felt that she was among the better actors in the early days of VOY and her relationship with the Doctor was quite engaging.

Moving on -

Lien didn't have T&A and Jeri Ryan did, so they dumped her in favour of somebody they could use to sell magazine covers and promote the show with to hormonal guys - and it worked.

Fortunately Ryan herself is a good enough actress to work within those paramenters until they gave her things to do on the show - as has been well pointed out by others. Not that I ever particularly cared about Seven much, but she had her moments.

However, the saturation of her within the show was a problem. She did come to dominate and just wasn't compelling enough to warrant it.

[chator]

Originally Posted by kevin

I did miss Jennifer Lien as an actress on the show. I had always felt that she was among the better actors in the early days of VOY and her relationship with the Doctor was quite engaging.

Lien didn't have T&A and Jeri Ryan did, so they dumped her in favour of somebody they could use to sell magazine covers and promote the show with to hormonal guys - and it worked.

Well, i guess you're right about the T&A male fantasy thing. But i agree with Horatio that she brought soul to the show. She was the most relateable of the cast. She had the sense of wonder and awe of a child, the eagerness to learn and contribute of the student, the heart and maturnal instinct of a young girl. Seven didn't have any of this, Ryan played Seven like a female Vulcan.

[Roysten]

Originally Posted by chator

Well, i guess you're right about the T&A male fantasy thing. But i agree with Horatio that she brought soul to the show. She was the most relateable of the cast. She had the sense of wonder and awe of a child, the eagerness to learn and contribute of the student, the heart and maturnal instinct of a young girl. Seven didn't have any of this, she played Seven like a female Vulcan.

On the T&A thing, Jeri Ryan undeniably fills that roll but I always thought Kes was one of the prettier characters in Star Trek, perhaps not oozing sex appeal like our favourite Borg but attractive in a more subtle understated way. She also had attainable appeal like Ezri that other trek ladies often didn't have.

I don't think Seven was like a Vulcan, she was very emotional and volatile, in someways more an immature child. I agree with you guys that she was often blunt and did become too much the focus of the show

Would have been interesting to see what may have happened if Kes had stayed on rather than Seven, the show definitely needed something at that point though, and Seven did fit the bill.