[Dominus of Megadeus]

Originally Posted by martok2112

Nothing has been cast aside or rendered asunder. That's why Spock Prime was there in story, as a reassurance to the die hards that everything that did happen before still happened (in HIS reality). But doing this allows the new stories to flow without slaving itself to canon.

Frak. It's a circular argument between los canonistas and those who are willing to move on. Neither side's gonna convince the other.

True, which is why I like Horatio's comment that we all have reasons we like or dislike this film or TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, "ABCDEFG, ESPN 1, 2, AND 3, sponsored by SCHLITZ Malt LIQOUR!"*

Like the BSG explicative!

* quote from the crazy Ricky Smiley comedy album

[horatio]

General Cartman says "more Schnapps for the troops".

[Dominus of Megadeus]

Lol!!!!

[Samuel]

Originally Posted by horatio

General Cartman says "more Schnapps for the troops".

Ah gotta love Cartman and his outlook on life.

[Clancy_s]

Originally Posted by Samuel

Any TOS based origin movie could have been wonderful. But the sequels would have been hamstrung and a mess for those that dont want TOS changed.

This.

For me even a Prime TOS origin film would have lacked a certain tension because all the characters I cared about going in would have had to be safe.

Watching ST11 the first time I was truly astonished at Amanda's death and the destruction of Vulcan, and I was half expecting them to reset those by the end of the movie: I'm glad they had the guts to stick to it (as opposed to newWho for example, which has way too much resetting for my taste).

In the sequel(s) I will believe it's a real hazard if they put any of the characters (except maybe for Kirk, Spock and McCoy) at risk.

[TheTrekkie]

Originally Posted by horatio

I don't think that TNG had less action than any other Trek series on average. TOS might have had more fistfights, but that's about it. I neither think that it is extraordinarily intellectual, the writing was not better than in TOS.

Of course not the story conception of TNG was made by intellectuals and therefore also not aimed at a small elite of intellectuals. TNG was a mainstream TV show. I know myself that TNG, though it had some sophisticated episodes, only was sophisticated for a mainstream TV show and not extraordinary, unique or complicated to understand.

But the characters that were shown on the Enterprise were intellectuals who thought and discussed before acting, who thought about the world and themselves and what it means to be human...

TOS in oposite used with Kirk, McCoy and Scotty quite down-to-earth characters, Spock - as contrast to Kirk - was the only real intellectual on board. TOS rather showed the normal guy flying to space, national conflicts overcome, and TNG showed academics in space, as representation of the enlightened mankind.

Let's also not forget that TNG became popular due to episodes like "Best of Both Worlds" or "Yesterday's Enterprise".

Many of the die-hard TNG-Trekkies would favor "The Drumhead", "The Measure of a Man", "Darmok", "All Good Things" etc. and expected the movies to keep the spirit of these episodes. But stories of that kind (except of All Good Things maybe) aren't a possiblity for a movie.

On the other hand I think the movie autors wanted to bring in at least a little to also satisfy these kind of fans. Therefore it never became as intensive as "Best of Both Worlds" or "Yesterday's Enterprise" (except of First Contact = Best of Both Worlds Sequel)

It always stayed a compromise anywhere inbetween.

TOS autors anyhow made a better job in combining a big movie-worthy presentation with a content, so that the movie didn't feel too profound.

[Beetlescott]

Originally Posted by TheTrekkie

I think TNG just worked better on TV.
TNG always lacked in action and had many dialogues.

The problem why TNG never was really successfull in the cinemas:
For Non-Trekkies the TNG crew wasn't "cool" and edged enough.
For the TNG-Trekkies the TNG movies were not intellectual, not TNG enough.
It always stayed a mere compromise.

Though All Good Things as a movie would have been my Trekkie-Fantasy.

Well, you have to admit, as far as box office recpts go, TNG, with the exception of Nemesis, worldwide broke the 100k mark. That's not too shbby. So they actually held their own pretty well if you put them up to TOS movie. Excluding Star Trek V

[Samuel]

Originally Posted by Clancy_s

For me even a Prime TOS origin film would have lacked a certain tension because all the characters I cared about going in would have had to be safe.

The characters had to be safe in Trek2009 also. At least the main ones. They werent going to kill off Scotty in the first movie.

Now.... who knows. They offed Spock in the second movie. Maybe this time it will be Scotty. A TOS sequel couldnt do that. If he did the 'sacrifice to save the ship' routine ala Spock, we already know hes going to be all laughs afterward. Probably get a medal also. To get the same plotline they would have to invent a new throwaway character.

The same kind of impact of Spocks decision for self-sacrifice, tension about whether he would succeed in time, and ultimate death would simply not be possible.

Funny enough, TNG killed off a second-tier character early but to bring her back they had to come up with an alt-universe story. If anything, that situation was Trek2009 in reverse. Her interference probably helped cause a civil war and death that would not have taken place otherwise.

Edit: not her interference, but the interference of offspring that would not have existed. The situation is the same however.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see them off a main character in the next one.

[Beetlescott]

I hope not, but you could be right. The show 24, which I love to watch, brought a new element to the audience: Shock value. When Jack Bauer had the head of FBI on his knees and was told by the bad guys to kill him, we knew he wouldn't have to, but he would save him in the last minute, to my utter shock, HE SHOT HIM!!! Blew his brains out. Even in the very first season Jacks wife was murdered. That brought a whole new edge to TV or movies. Anything could happen now, no one is safe!!!!!