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  #1021  
Old 12-05-2009, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by starwarsrcks View Post
It may suck to some people, but can't we not be pleased at the cast and crew for putting their time and effort into making this film?
I wholeheartedly agree! I'm grateful that Paramount and Mr. Abrams re-energized the franchise. But, we can't please everyone.

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  #1022  
Old 12-05-2009, 06:39 AM
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work work hard things they had to do to tie this film together isn't that right.
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  #1023  
Old 12-05-2009, 09:41 AM
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See, I don't think Trek did a very good job of painting its alien cultures as anything other than archetypal. With the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians and Feringi, what you see is pretty much all you get. Out of 700 hours of television, you've cited here just a couple examples that strike me as being too little, too late (this is not intended as a challenge; you've merely brought up something that's always bothered me about Trek and I am forced to disagree).

Species could 'evolve' over time with new writers coming into the franchise and offering fresh interpretations... but this process usually happened in spurts, and once the new template was established that was that.

Ron Moore is perhaps the writer best credited with helping the Klingons evolve from the Russian stand-ins of TOS to the more Samurai-like culture seen in the TNG-verse. But after Season 4 of TNG, the entire Klingon culture was pretty much left on auto-pilot. DS9 practically became 'The Klingon Show' after they brought Worf over, and still the writers seemed happy with stretching the existing template rather than adding to it.

In 'Children of Time', Worf's descendants even bragged that they held true to the spirit of Kayless rather than doing anything meaningful like sewing or planting crops! Did we need any more proof that there was apparently no place in the monochrome Klingon society for librarians or farmers? (I might add that Worf himself changed on DS9. No longer content to reconcile his human upbringing and Starfleet values with his Klingon 'honor', his role was now reduced to clashing with the other officers and voicing the least popular opinion: "Kill him now!! We have not the medical resources and his condition is beyond rescue!!" -not an exact quote)

And so, to answer that one Klingon's question... yes, I honestly did believe all Klingons were warriors, and had criticized ST's writing for many years because of it. Had that line been spoken on DS9, ten years earlier, it might've been funny. On ENT, it merely smells of one writer realizing a major flaw in ST's portrayal of an alien culture, and attempting to patch it up too long after the fact.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hijack your discussion like that, but thanks for bringing it up.
No need to apologize. I understand fully what you are saying and it is absolutely true. I, however, did not have much of a problem with it because we saw only narrow slivers of each species people. We most often saw the military men and woman of each species, so it was not that big a deal that they all seemed very similar. Not enough time was available to expand each minor character in order to bring out more individual characteristics. It seems the more we saw a particular character, the more we saw the differences from the prevailing stereotype of his or her species. I don't have specific examples, but that is how I feel. In short, we have seen 99.9% percent Klingon warriors onscreen, but I KNEW they were just a portion of their entire society.
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  #1024  
Old 12-06-2009, 05:16 AM
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No need to apologize. I understand fully what you are saying and it is absolutely true. I, however, did not have much of a problem with it because we saw only narrow slivers of each species people...
I agree as well (and I promise, thread creator, we'll go back to the subject theme!)

I'm eager to be introduced to a new species and have a "getting to know you" process. On TNT, I watched Steven Spillberg's telling of "War of the Worlds" (a movie I found really heavy and scary). The mystery of those tripods was scary--the not knowing. Then, we learned a little more about the aliens--the actual beings in control of the tripods--were curious conqurors...They weren't nice, but they did exhibit intelligence. I thought the little reveals about the creatures was nice, and wished there was another movie where we could learn more about them.

I think Star Trek's "exploring strange new worlds" motif would fit well in learning about a new civilation (be they friendly or hostile).
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  #1025  
Old 12-06-2009, 05:19 AM
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In what way does the movie suck
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  #1026  
Old 12-06-2009, 05:53 AM
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I agree, starwarsrcks, that "NuTrek" (shudders saying that) doesn't "suck". However, since this is the thread creator's viewpoint, he's entitled to express why (gulp) "NuTrek" is filled with "suckiness". I, on the other hand, applaud the fact that Trek is now "cool again"--and is more popular than ever, thanks to this film. The creators of the film have done ther VERY BEST to honor the spirit of TOS while liberating the mythos to new possiblities and new stories--capturing and widening the franchise's demographics (here I go venturing into the business side of this art form again!). Movie making is both an ART and a BUSINESS. The art side is very subjective, and thus the creator of this thread can express his or her viewpoint of the film's greatness or failures (as long as, IMO, they are being civil on the internet). The only way to quantify the film as a "success" then is by Professional Critical approval and WORD OF MOUTH approval by the movie going public--with a convergence of the two USUALLY translating into a financial success. So, while I personally LOVED (here I go again) "Hudson Hawk", it was not a "successful movie". "Star Trek" IS a successful movie, but I can't knock anyone who hates it as much as I loved "Hudson Hawk". Just as long as they are civil and logical in expressing their disdain for the movie as a whole or in part and respect the forum.

What the heck is wrong with me??? I've been just a loose fountain of words as of late!
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  #1027  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by starwarsrcks View Post
In what way does the movie suck
The movie itself doesn't necessarily suck. In fact, I thought it was a fun and exciting sci-fi movie. Add to that the fact that I don't think I've seen anyone here actually say the movie sucked. What sucks is the way that 40+ years of Star Trek continuity was tossed out with the garbage to make this movie. That's what bothers me as a TOS fan. The fact that "my" Star Trek is gone forever and that I'll have nothing to look forward to in Trek's future but the Abramsverse. That saddens me. I'm not happy or content with the Abramsverse. I don't like what JJA has done to "my" Star Trek. And I will never be okay with it. I have come to accept the Abramsverse as a "what-if" tale similar to the "Elseworlds" one-offs from DC Comics in which they put established heroes in different situations. It's not part of the established history of that character but it is still interesting. One that comes to mind is where Kal-El crashes in Gotham city and is taken in by the Waynes instead of the Kents. It's very interesting to see Superman take on the role of the Dark Knight. However, it is an alternate reality or simply a "what-if" scenario that is not meant to fit in with the character's established history. That's how I feel about STXI. It's nothing more than a what-if story that uses the same names but is not meant to fit in with the established Trek universe. It's simply there for entertainment. Nothing more.
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  #1028  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:35 AM
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Zim, would you have preferred a straight reboot with out the time traveling aspect of it?
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  #1029  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:55 AM
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Zim, would you have preferred a straight reboot with out the time traveling aspect of it?
You know what? Maybe. At least then there would have been no "canon" questions. There would have been absolutely no pretense of trying to fit in with the original continuity. None of the dancing around the issue that we heard in the beginning. A straight reboot with no ties to TOS would have been preferable. That way it could have literally been a separate franchise and we old TOS fans could keep our Star Trek for ourselves and let the noobs have NuTrek.
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  #1030  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:56 AM
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Sometimes I think a straight reboot would have been the way to go too.
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