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View Poll Results: Is Star Trek Generations more of a TNG film or TOS film?
TOS 0 0%
TNG 4 57.14%
TOS/TNG 2 28.57%
a mistake 1 14.29%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 07-13-2014, 09:42 AM
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Roysten Roysten is offline
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I agree that a lot of those could work on VOY, though with Phantasms was quite Data specific so would need a significant rewrite! Also The Royale was very 80s and should probably stay that way!

I like a lot of the episodes that you've listed, but I think it nicely shows how prevalent Star Trek subgenres are in the wider Star Trek culture. And by that I mean episodes with themes and plots that Star Trek comes back to again and again which would work in any of the shows and are always very predictable, good examples would be "a main character has mummy/daddy/child issues - resolved by the end of the episode" or "character in a coma and must take a personal journey to come out a more happy, confident person at the end".

I know this has been said before but just to reitterate - I often think that the best episodes are ones which would only work within that show and with that particular cast, to me it shows that the writers know their characters and the individual themes that make that show work. DS9 was good at this even before all the war episodes, ENT got good at this once it hit its stride. VOY has a few and they were often amongst the best episodes IMO (a good example being Void).

Tying this all back in Generations. There was nothing about the ENT-B scenes that was TOS specific. To be a bit cruel the scenes felt clinical and could have been achieved with as much mediocrity with any old characters along side Kirk, you could tell it was a TNG writer penning the scenes and all it does is give the viewer a bit of background, there's nothing sentimental, no nice nods, no real humour and nothin of note to take from it. We've just been having long discussions about Kirk's death scene at the end of the film, taking a second to reflect on Kirk's "death" scene at the start of the film... was that meant to tug on the audience's heart strings? It was quite a cool scene visually for me but is all a bit bleugh otherwise. Is interesting to think that this is actually Kirk's heroic death and the one at the end is the low-key non-glory death. Just an interesting contrast I thought was worth noting.
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  #52  
Old 07-13-2014, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roysten View Post
I agree that a lot of those could work on VOY, though with Phantasms was quite Data specific so would need a significant rewrite! Also The Royale was very 80s and should probably stay that way!

I like a lot of the episodes that you've listed, but I think it nicely shows how prevalent Star Trek subgenres are in the wider Star Trek culture. And by that I mean episodes with themes and plots that Star Trek comes back to again and again which would work in any of the shows and are always very predictable, good examples would be "a main character has mummy/daddy/child issues - resolved by the end of the episode" or "character in a coma and must take a personal journey to come out a more happy, confident person at the end".

I know this has been said before but just to reitterate - I often think that the best episodes are ones which would only work within that show and with that particular cast, to me it shows that the writers know their characters and the individual themes that make that show work. DS9 was good at this even before all the war episodes, ENT got good at this once it hit its stride. VOY has a few and they were often amongst the best episodes IMO (a good example being Void).

Tying this all back in Generations. There was nothing about the ENT-B scenes that was TOS specific. To be a bit cruel the scenes felt clinical and could have been achieved with as much mediocrity with any old characters along side Kirk, you could tell it was a TNG writer penning the scenes and all it does is give the viewer a bit of background, there's nothing sentimental, no nice nods, no real humour and nothin of note to take from it. We've just been having long discussions about Kirk's death scene at the end of the film, taking a second to reflect on Kirk's "death" scene at the start of the film... was that meant to tug on the audience's heart strings? It was quite a cool scene visually for me but is all a bit bleugh otherwise. Is interesting to think that this is actually Kirk's heroic death and the one at the end is the low-key non-glory death. Just an interesting contrast I thought was worth noting.
Well, at least they mention Kirk's retirement from Starfleet in the film and there's also a very good piece of advice Kirk gives to Picard that he does follow.

Captain Kirk (retired): "Captain of the Enterprise, huh?
Captain Picard: "That's right."
Kirk: "Close to retirement?"
Picard: "Not planning on it."
Kirk: "Well let me tell you something. Don't. Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything, that takes you off the bridge of that ship because while you're there...you can make a difference."

I thought that was good advice and all the things Kirk mentions are things we've gone through with him in the previous six films.
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  #53  
Old 08-16-2014, 11:25 AM
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Kirk had a decent character arc across all the films actually, I think you can see him change slightly in every film, almost becoming quite a well rounded character by the end of it. As has been said before the films made better use of the TOS cast than the series did.
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