[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by martok2112

And it's the foreigners who can just go and blast our country without knowing the first fracking thing about it.

I seem to remember another group of foreigners who did that...I belive they were called the American Colonials??

[kevin]

Like people in the US who blast countries and people who allow same-sex marriage, abortion rights, people liek Ann Coulter who argue for outright invasion and conversion of non-christian countries. People anywhere are permitted an opinion, and to express it, whether you like it or not. Now, you have the right to disagree but when actions engaged in by one country cause people in other's to be killed as alongside, sorry, but that gives us the right to voice our opinion as well. You don't have to like it, not asking you to, but put simply the actions of the U.S affect every other country in one way or another, so don't expect people not to have an opinion on it. There are things going on the world that have global significance, and global input. It's not all about America.

[kevin]

Anyway, I actually agree that political threads are not really what this site is about, but people keep bringing them up and it feeds itself.

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by kevin

Anyway, I actually agree that political threads are not really what this site is about, but people keep bringing them up and it feeds itself.

Point taken on your previous posts. Not that I agree, entirely....but I do take your point.

And yes, the best thing we can do is just ignore political threads.

[kevin]

I agree, let's get back to Trek, which is after all, what has brought everyone together onto this forum, no matter where they are from.

[Zardoz]

As I stated elsewhere, no one makes you post in any thread. If you don't like the topic, don't read it. No rudeness here, it's just that simple.

[Yagami Crewman]

Originally Posted by NCC-73515

Perhaps the US brought even more terror to the world...

Yes we did.
First by not obliging the rest of the world to go away after 1945.

Second we made an error of thinking of overseas relations as "Them" vs "US "(And whatever friends we might have)

Failing to understand that not all of "THEM" had the same objectives in mind AND Not all of our so called friends were really friendly... Just we fell for this Enemy of My enemy garbage. (IE Iraq... The Moderate Middle East state that was "Protecting our interests"
by INVADING a neighbor we didn't like and OOPS! Blowing a hole in the USS Stark. (BTW anyone stop to think what Saddam would have done if he had managed to BEAT the Iranians?)

Third we are a nation addicted to quick fixes and half measures.

Gulf War I should have been the end of it. Instead Bush decided to appease the Arabs who hate our living guts anyway and leave Saddam in power. We let him know that there would be NO real punishment... All he had to do (And he was working on it) was wait out the UN and then he could go back to building whatever he liked. By failing to finish Saddam we lost respect from the Arab world. (Doesn't matter if they like you.. They had BETTER respect you or there will be trouble.) And brought about a nonsensical policy of "Containment" started by Bush Senior and continued by President Clinton. Containment did not work but it eroded support for taking ANY other action. The US presence in the region while we allowed Saddam to stay in power and kill off any enemies that had a chance of hurting him (Those left that is) bred resentment.

Resentment + perceived weakness were the ingredients for terrorism.

Add in Bush Junior's knack for stating his case in the most inept fashion imaginable and the desire to score a stunning victory over the "Bad Guys" (You CAN'T get a stunning glorious victory chasing a rat around the afghan mountains and you can't use fancy high tech smart bombs that look great on CNN to do the work.)...

Yes... The United States of America IS the root of terror in this world... Not because everyone else is so nice... (Tell that Danish Cartoonist who got death threats from Islamic extremists over a CARTOON!) But because we have mishandled the power that comes from being the world's strongest democracy.

The US should never have accepted the mantle of leader of the free world... Our people won't fight for freedom and the rest of the world sure as heck doesn't appreciate the effort.

I look at my grandfather's generation... "The Generation That Saved the World." As they pass on I look at the country and the world they gave everything for and I have to ask... Considering how we have treated the gifts they gave to us... Was it worth what they sacrificed?

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Yagami Crewman

Yes we did.
First by not obliging the rest of the world to go away after 1945.

Second we made an error of thinking of overseas relations as "Them" vs "US "(And whatever friends we might have)

Failing to understand that not all of "THEM" had the same objectives in mind AND Not all of our so called friends were really friendly... Just we fell for this Enemy of My enemy garbage. (IE Iraq... The Moderate Middle East state that was "Protecting our interests"
by INVADING a neighbor we didn't like and OOPS! Blowing a hole in the USS Stark. (BTW anyone stop to think what Saddam would have done if he had managed to BEAT the Iranians?)

Third we are a nation addicted to quick fixes and half measures.

Gulf War I should have been the end of it. Instead Bush decided to appease the Arabs who hate our living guts anyway and leave Saddam in power. We let him know that there would be NO real punishment... All he had to do (And he was working on it) was wait out the UN and then he could go back to building whatever he liked. By failing to finish Saddam we lost respect from the Arab world. (Doesn't matter if they like you.. They had BETTER respect you or there will be trouble.) And brought about a nonsensical policy of "Containment" started by Bush Senior and continued by President Clinton. Containment did not work but it eroded support for taking ANY other action. The US presence in the region while we allowed Saddam to stay in power and kill off any enemies that had a chance of hurting him (Those left that is) bred resentment.

Resentment + perceived weakness were the ingredients for terrorism.

Add in Bush Junior's knack for stating his case in the most inept fashion imaginable and the desire to score a stunning victory over the "Bad Guys" (You CAN'T get a stunning glorious victory chasing a rat around the afghan mountains and you can't use fancy high tech smart bombs that look great on CNN to do the work.)...

Yes... The United States of America IS the root of terror in this world... Not because everyone else is so nice... (Tell that Danish Cartoonist who got death threats from Islamic extremists over a CARTOON!) But because we have mishandled the power that comes from being the world's strongest democracy.

The US should never have accepted the mantle of leader of the free world... Our people won't fight for freedom and the rest of the world sure as heck doesn't appreciate the effort.

I look at my grandfather's generation... "The Generation That Saved the World." As they pass on I look at the country and the world they gave everything for and I have to ask... Considering how we have treated the gifts they gave to us... Was it worth what they sacrificed?

It is...but we have to work hard to save it...

[jerhanner]

Ditto, Yagami! Thank you for saving me some typing.

It always interests me that very few people stop to ask "why" so many people in the world hate America. I'd be willing to bet those same people don't know what we're letting our oil companies do in Africa...

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by jerhanner

Ditto, Yagami! Thank you for saving me some typing.

It always interests me that very few people stop to ask "why" so many people in the world hate America. I'd be willing to bet those same people don't know what we're letting our oil companies do in Africa...

Or to the people there....not pretty...