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  #11  
Old 06-03-2008, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Berengarius7 View Post
Enterprise-J is a timeship, not a starship. Three nacelled Galaxy from "All Good Things" was a refit of the Enterprise-D from another quantum reality.
That's not correct.

The "Enterprise-J" was a Federation starship from a potential 26th-Century. The three-nacelled Enterprise-D in "All Good Things..." was from a potential version of the late 24th-Century.

The only Federation timeships that have been identified onscreen as such have been the 29th-Century Aeon and the USS Relativity.
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  #12  
Old 06-03-2008, 07:58 PM
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Yes, it was never said the Ent-J was a timeship. Looked like a standard starship to me, albeit with a somewhat odd hull geometry. The only time travelling occuring aboard the Ent-J was Daniels messing about from the 31st century.
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  #13  
Old 06-03-2008, 08:53 PM
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But then, Daniels brought Archer to the Battle of Procyon V, where the Ent-J lead the fleet that defeated the Sphere Builders' invasion of our space, and the whole Xindi mess was supposed to be the result of the Sphere Builders sensing that and trying to wipe out humanity so that battle didn't happen.

So, since that plan failed, wouldn't that mean that the Battle of Procyon V would go ahead as originally planned, thus meaning the J 'exists' and oh god I hate time travel.

And I'd say Star Trek 'canon' had some fairly hefty outrages perpetrated on it long before ENT was even a twinkle in Berman's misguided eye... For example, the USS Enterprise XCV-330: It's on the rec room wall of the refit 1701, but not on the conference room wall of the 1701-D, and IT would be the first USS Enterprise, no matter what Ben Sisko says!
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  #14  
Old 06-03-2008, 10:45 PM
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Well both the rec room on the 1701 and the conference room on the 1701-D missed ships that carried the name Enterprise (not necessarily starships). Both of them missed one carrier or the other. The 1701 showed the WWII carrier, but not the nuclear carrier. The 1701-D showed the nuclear carrier but not the WWII carrier. Both were of historical significance in their own right. Then of course there were 6 other American ships to carry the name Enterprise that date all the way back to the American Revolution, and even some of these ships were of historical significance as well. The Royal Navy has had roughly 14 vessels to carry the name Enterprise, a few actually predate the American Revolution. So clearly, the depictions on the 1701 and the 1701-D were not intended to be a complete representation of the history of the name Enterprise, but simply more of an overview. The only thing that they really seemed to pay attention on was depicting the Federation starships to carry the name.

Whether or not a random starfleet officer would know how many starships carried the name Enterprise, I really am not sure. I've met plenty of naval officers that couldn't tell you what the first American ship named Enterprise was even though it is probably the most well known name in the fleet. The ship was one of the first, if not THE first ship commissioned by Congress, she was the most significant ship in the Lake Champlain Squadron, she fought at Valcour Island which stopped the British invasion of New York, and was the flagship of Benedict Arnold of all people. Of course this isn't specifically covered in the naval history text that the Navy uses as far as the Enterprise is concerned. But I've met plenty of officers that don't even know what the Battle of Jutland was, and that IS something that is in the text books.

It will be interesting if in the future, the makers of Star Trek will also include Richard Branson's VSS Enterprise on the Enterprise's Wall of Fame.
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Last edited by Akula2ssn : 06-03-2008 at 11:23 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-04-2008, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
But then, Daniels brought Archer to the Battle of Procyon V, where the Ent-J lead the fleet that defeated the Sphere Builders' invasion of our space, and the whole Xindi mess was supposed to be the result of the Sphere Builders sensing that and trying to wipe out humanity so that battle didn't happen.

So, since that plan failed, wouldn't that mean that the Battle of Procyon V would go ahead as originally planned, thus meaning the J 'exists' and oh god I hate time travel.
Well, Archer pretty much wiped out the necessity for the Battle of Procyon V since the Sphere Builders were stopped in the 22nd-Century instead of the 26th-Century.

Temporal paradoxes suxs...
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  #16  
Old 06-04-2008, 04:02 AM
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There was another mistake in DS9's tribble episode... the guys from temporal investigations immediately knew it was Kirk's time. Yet April and Pike have commanded the Enterprise for 15 years before Kirk.
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  #17  
Old 06-04-2008, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
There was another mistake in DS9's tribble episode... the guys from temporal investigations immediately knew it was Kirk's time. Yet April and Pike have commanded the Enterprise for 15 years before Kirk.
That's not a mistake at all. As soon as Sisko mentioned that the Enterprise in question was the original NCC-1701, they knew it just had to be Kirk because his time travel exploits were legendary.

And April has only been mentioned and seen in TAS and various novels, so the jury is still out (for now anyway) if he's actually part of the official canon.
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  #18  
Old 06-04-2008, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
That's not a mistake at all. As soon as Sisko mentioned that the Enterprise in question was the original NCC-1701, they knew it just had to be Kirk because his time travel exploits were legendary.

And April has only been mentioned and seen in TAS and various novels, so the jury is still out (for now anyway) if he's actually part of the official canon.
Yes, they are. April is not offically canon, just conjecture by the Okudas.
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  #19  
Old 06-04-2008, 06:38 AM
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Yes, they are. April is not offically canon, just conjecture by the Okudas.
Yeah, we gotta wait to see if he's at least mentioned in the new movie somewhere...
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  #20  
Old 06-04-2008, 06:41 AM
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Yeah, we gotta wait to see if he's at least mentioned in the new movie somewhere...
I'm gonna say no. Reason being, it would be easier to pick a point after Pike was in command to show.
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