[Enterprise Captain]

Update

[Zardoz]

Well..anything is possible, and the children do seem wanted.

[Oregon_Coast_Trekkie]

So, this person wanted to be a man, but also wanted to bear children...? I guess I'm just narrow-minded and don't understand...

[Ampris]

As long as the kid ends up OK, I guess I'm fine with this. The only thing is, that... well, IRL, this is the guy's choice and it's all right, but I have mixed emotions. See, there's one aspect of fanfic all about mpreg (male pregnancy), and I always found it kind of squicky (please don't ask me about the Trek mpreg stories I accidentally read, I'd rather not remember). But now I find it fine in real life? That seems hypocritical.

But I really do hope the kid is fine, and the pregnancy/birth goes without trouble. That's quite a thing to be remembered as the first to do it...

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Oregon_Coast_Trekkie

So, this person wanted to be a man, but also wanted to bear children...? I guess I'm just narrow-minded and don't understand...

I think the child bearing wasn't planned. Most of the time the hormone overload they give to pre-op's is enough to shut that down.

[Botany Bay]

Originally Posted by Oregon_Coast_Trekkie

So, this person wanted to be a man, but also wanted to bear children...? I guess I'm just narrow-minded and don't understand...

As far as I know there are many men out there that want to become father. You are not narrow minded. If you read a bit about the concepts of gender and the sociology behind it, then you will realize what I tryed to point out in earlier posts. A sex change is not just a woman becoming a man or vice versa. Because all concepts of male and female are for the most part social constructions that have complex meanings in complex contexts the reasons for transgender people to do the sex change are equally individual and complex.

So, he is a man who wanted to have a child and for one or another reason decided to become pregnant was to way to do it. Its possible for him, because he was born as a woman. Our constructed concepts of male and female dont apply here because they are about the norm, this is the exeption.

[Zardoz]

BB and Oregon-

It can be a hard connection to make for those who haven't been around it.

Sufice it to say as BB did in a round about way, that some people are born into the wrong bodies. Many try to correct this over site with sex changes, but itself is many years of intense therapy and testing, not just anyone can go get one when they feel like it.

BB, yes male/female gender assignment roles are society based, I'll give you that. But it would be horrible to be a man trapped in a woman's body, or vice versa.

Normal is also a very nebulous term, after all these years I have never seen normal, doubt I ever shall. Life is beautiful in it's diversity.

[Enterprise Captain]

Originally Posted by Ampris

That's quite a thing to be remembered as the first to do it...

It turns out that Thomas Beatie is not the first person to do this, the article mentions others before him but for some reason those cases didn't become big news like this has.

Originally Posted by Zardoz

I think the child bearing wasn't planned. Most of the time the hormone overload they give to pre-op's is enough to shut that down.

The second article states that "They wanted to start a family but health problems meant (Nancy) Roberts could not conceive." In the first article I posted it stated that Roberts had a hysterectomy and that is why Beatie decided to carry the child. The second article also states that Beatie stopped taking his hormone injections and waited for his period to return before trying to conceive.

[Botany Bay]

Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain

The second article states that "They wanted to start a family but health problems meant (Nancy) Roberts could not conceive." In the first article I posted it stated that Roberts had a hysterectomy and that is why Beatie decided to carry the child. The second article also states that Beatie stopped taking his hormone injections and waiting for his period to return before trying to conceive.

There you have the very individual and complex reasons .

To Zardoz: I believe that in a perfect society, where gender boundaries would not be seen that strict anymore, the problems of transgender people would not vanish, but would be much easier to live with. How many men do you know, that do not allways fit in all the criterias for male and how many women that are not allways female? I know women who state they are gay men in a womans body and mean: Often I feel very male and often I do not like the female role, on other days I enjoy to be a woman and damn, I sexually feel atracted to men.

Thats why sexuality is such a complicated and individual thing.

PS: Oh, and with the norm I only mean statistical values as in most men and women prefer this and that, not as in there is a "natural" norm and an "unnatural" exception. The concept of natural and unnatural is highly misleading anyway. Is civilization unnatural? Its not nature. Anyway...

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Botany Bay

There you have the very individual and complex reasons .

To Zardoz: I believe that in a perfect society, where gender boundaries would not be seen that strict anymore, the problems of transgender people would not vanish, but would be much easier to live with. How many men do you know, that do not allways fit in all the criterias for male and how many women that are not allways female? I know women who state they are gay men in a womans body and mean: Often I feel very male and often I do not like the female role, on other days I enjoy to be a woman and damn, I sexually feel atracted to men.

Thats why sexuality is such a complicated and individual thing.

PS: Oh, and with the norm I only mean statistical values as in most men and women prefer this and that, not as in there is a "natural" norm and an "unnatural" exception. The concept of natural and unnatural is highly misleading anyway. Is civilization unnatural? Its not nature. Anyway...

So, how do you feel today?