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  #131  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:09 AM
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In Anomaly Archer tortures somebody which at least as radical of a break with Roddenberry's parameters than the stuff which supposed revolutionaries like Behr (Sisko looking away when Garak kills a few people), Moore or Meyer (Spock's mind-rape) did. So the notion that Berman followed Roddenberry's footsteps too closely and that the franchise needed new ideas (ironically it were precisely old ideas, present in ENTS4 and the last two movies, which have been well received by the fans) or less dogmatism seems dubious on closer inspection.

I am not siding with anybody, I like the work of all the people mentioned above. I merely want to point out that there are certain cliches, be it about events in Trek or opinions about the folks behind the curtain, which turn out to not be true. Ages ago Eliza did a nice analysis in which she pointed out that Kirk is not, as fans often pretend, really that much of a womanizer and shoot-first-ask-questions-later type.
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  #132  
Old 09-04-2013, 10:39 AM
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I don't know about Kirk not being a womanizer. I do agree he's not just a shoot first and ask questions later type, but the guy likes the ladies.
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  #133  
Old 09-04-2013, 11:43 AM
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Which I think just shows that while there may not be a lot of us left here................we still all have very different in places points of view over what went wrong and when.
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  #134  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
I don't know about Kirk not being a womanizer. I do agree he's not just a shoot first and ask questions later type, but the guy likes the ladies.
I'd have to dig up Eliza's posts but she basically went over how many women Kirk slept with and it turned out to not be that many. He flirted of course with quite some.
Her analysis also surprised me and probably stuck in my mind as NuKirk is precisely based on this distorted image of Kirk. Let's not forget that the most interesting Kirk moments were precisely the ones in which Shatner was forced by Meyer (via doing a shot so often until the Shat was tired and less energetic) to go back to the original idea of the character. Of course Pike would have been a boring character and Kirk only worked because of Shatner's energy but not merely because of that.
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  #135  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:29 AM
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His enjoyment of women in his youth (by which I mean his activities were confined mostly to the TV series and not the movies) were certainly clear and plenty of flings and possible romances were alluded to. I would say it always comes down to interpretation of the material (much like the idea Meyer militarised Starfleet from it's TOS incarnation, which I personally never concurred with, he merely brought it to the foreground) presented (and I would have to simultaneously read and consider Eliza's analysis which will be long buried and also revisit some actual episodes of the show itself) but the man was no monk, and long term comitted relationships seemed thin on the ground so by mere process of deduction, there had to be some more, shall we say, 'short term' romances in the mix.
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  #136  
Old 09-05-2013, 10:34 AM
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Hmmmmnnn, I went to add something there and it's not doing it. Anyone else finding odd things still on the forum?
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  #137  
Old 09-17-2013, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
I don't know about Kirk not being a womanizer. I do agree he's not just a shoot first and ask questions later type, but the guy likes the ladies.
As a Starship captain he definitely liked the ladies but kept very respectful... Until some emotional manipulation was called for. Most of his onscreen "flings" were more a means to and end rather than an end unto themselves.

However, he'd been shown to have many more offscreen romances (at least one of which yielded him a child he was entirely unaware of). So in his younger days he was both a bookworm and a "ladies' man".

You could look at New Kirk as a distorted view of Captain Kirk, but equally the two characters did not have the same upbringing. He's not a straight reboot of the character, but one with a quite different origin. And for better or worse, New Kirk's development does have its roots in Captain Kirk's potential.
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  #138  
Old 09-18-2013, 11:08 PM
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http://trekmovie.com/2013/09/13/edit...is-not-broken/

Someone's editorial response to the 'article' I linked previously. Again some interesting thoughts, though I still find the tone somewhat reactionary.

Also, rumor (and not the first) of who might be considered to direct the next film:

http://trekmovie.com/2013/09/12/j-j-abrams-endorses-rupert-wyatt-for-star-trek-3-director-still-nothing-official/

Nothing you can't sleep through though if you're so inclined.
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  #139  
Old 09-19-2013, 01:55 AM
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Thanks to Roddenberry’s self-aggrandizing view of “evolved humanity,” we got stale and stiff characters with a “higher sensibility.”

I guess the guy missed the stories in which Picard fought with his brother, Riker fought with his father or Geordi failed at dating.

I think it is important to emphasize ad infinitum to Next Gen fans like myself that the new movies are a return to TOS and that TOS differs in some ways from the other series. But I also think it is important to question some cliches about Trek which overemphasize the actual differences among the series. Picard isn't a stiff intellectual captain who never gets laid and Kirk isn't an action-hero captain who only thinks about getting laid. Actually they both have brains and balls and frequently use them.
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  #140  
Old 09-19-2013, 08:49 AM
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On the director front, a few weeks ago I had read a rumour that Paramount had supposedly offered a look at a third film to Jon M Chu (director of the G.I Joe sequel) which was probably the first time I've actually thought to myself 'Get to ****'.

However, it started me wondering who I might be interested in (not getting caught up in fantasy names like Nolan or Mendes some people go to) and I actually thought about Rupert Wyatt. I thought 'Rise of The Planet of The Apes' was very well done.

I also thought of Matt Reeves, as he's also one of Abrams affiliations. But just now he's directing the Apes sequel so that could be why his name came into my head.

Either way, both those guys would be vastly better than Chu. Which in fairness is a rumour I have not seen repeated yet.
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