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  #11  
Old 12-15-2012, 12:20 AM
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It is easy to blame the obvious perpetrator of a crime and a bit more difficult to take a look at the structural causes. Concretely that means that there are plenty of psychopaths in the world but they cannot easily get their hand on a gun everywhere.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2012, 04:24 AM
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Rethinking the post I'd had up before I deleted it.

My sympathies go out to the families who lost their little ones, and my prayers go out to the little ones who never got a chance to really live life.

A parent should never have to bury their child.

I seriously needed to rethink my comments regarding Barrack Obama. After I re-read what he'd said, I realized I did not read his comment correctly.

He said that there was no parent in America who was not feeling the overwhelming grief he was feeling at that moment. I mistook the words...my mind omitted something from his statement, and I lashed out like a fool.

Bottom line is: I pray that the families of the lost little ones find strength in themselves, and each other during this time of loss. Recovery is not going to be easy, and in fact, full recovery from the trauma may never truly come. I also pray that the f***tard who committed this act of unrestrained evil gets his due punishment in whatever world awaits his sorry ***.
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2012, 05:04 AM
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Found out the teacher who was shot that hid her kids in the closet? She's from my town...
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2012, 05:27 AM
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I've never even seen a gun in Japan and don't know anyone who owns one. A Japanese police holster has a big flap that hides what's inside. Yakuza are assumed to sometimes carry guns but keep them hidden. And I've certainlly never heard of a gun brought to school in Japan.
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  #15  
Old 12-15-2012, 08:06 AM
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The murder rate in Japan is also pretty low. On the other hand Switzerland has also a fairly low murder rate yet there is a gun in every Swiss household so I doubt that there is a clear correlation between gun laws and murder rate.
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2012, 09:40 AM
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Well, Switzerland is a unique case, where even though they manage to stay out of wars most of the men are in the army and keep their military uniforms and personally assigned weapons at home, although I think they stopped keeping the ammunition at home. But it looks from here like a different mindset from that in the U.S.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
It is easy to blame the obvious perpetrator of a crime and a bit more difficult to take a look at the structural causes. Concretely that means that there are plenty of psychopaths in the world but they cannot easily get their hand on a gun everywhere.
Absolutely, firearm control and crime are complex issues that are more grey than black and white. I found this article interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCARS 24 View Post
Well, Switzerland is a unique case, where even though they manage to stay out of wars most of the men are in the army and keep their military uniforms and personally assigned weapons at home, although I think they stopped keeping the ammunition at home. But it looks from here like a different mindset from that in the U.S.
Here is an interesting article.
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:44 PM
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Thanks for the links.
I didn't like the Guardian article as it did not give per capita data but the other article was brilliant, especially the part about ideology:

For one segment of American society, guns symbolize honor, human mastery over nature, and individual self-sufficiency. By opposing gun control, individuals affirm the value of these meanings and the vision of the good society that they construct. For another segment of American society, however, guns connote something else: the perpetuation of illicit social hierarchies, the elevation of force over reason, and the expression of collective indifference to the well-being of strangers. These individuals instinctively support gun control as a means of repudiating these significations and of promoting an alternative vision of the good society that features equality, social solidarity, and civilized nonagression.

Ideology can even make people to ignore facts and when the empirical side is messy ideology matters even more.

Personally I obviously belong to the second group mentioned by the professors but I totally accept the pro-gun logic of deterrence. A petty criminal can get a gun independent of gun laws (like in the case of drugs illegalization only leads to artificial scarcity, i.e. prices are driven up and the item is not comfortably available in a shop) anyway so better keep one yourself. I find this incredibly funny.
But a psychologically troubled adolescent who wants to kill other people and himself isn't a professional criminal who needs a weapon for "work". I wouldn't know how to get a gun over here and if I were suicidal I would most likely lack the willpower to struggle to get a gun.
In short, legalization of guns has probably no influence upon organized crime (mobsters get their guns anyway), an ambiguous effect upon petty crime (cheaper gun for criminal vs. deterrence) and a negative effect upon people who wanna see the world burn or psychopaths.

That's why I think two things should happen. First, make it harder at least for the people who are already certified (obviously I am not advocating to give psychiatries too much power, we all read our Stieg Larsson) to be dangerous to themselves or others to get a gun. Second, ban assault rifles as semiautomatic weapons are hardly practical for self-defense and as a majority of people supports the reinstatement of the 94-04 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
And as the article mentions at the end, the most important thing is that people sit together, talk reasonably and with an open mind (translate, while being aware of their own ideological biases).
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  #19  
Old 12-17-2012, 01:27 PM
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Sorry, but I likes to keep me semi-auto pistols. Granted, I can kill with one assailant with one bullet....but if you're faced down with more than one assailant, well, the ability to loose those other bullets on command is quite reassuring. And I am a damn good shot.

And the liberal media just loves slapping the term "assault rifle" on pretty much any long firearm capable of semi automatic fire. An assault rifle means that you have a fully automatic weapon that, when in concert with others in your squad, is capable of allowing you to lay assault to a fortified position. A semi-auto AK-47 or AR-15 no longer qualifies as an assault rifle. Yes, you can lay down a lot of fire with a semi-auto rifle, but not near the kind of firepower vs time that you can with a fully capable "assault rifle". (It should be noted that even in combat, full auto is often discouraged, because it is ultimately a waste of ammo, and only good for suppression of a target or targets). When the term assault rifle is applied to a weapon that can no longer serve the function, it is only because of the sensationalism of the liberal media, and the fact that they can't tell an "assault rifle" from a "personal defense weapon". Now I will also grant that one is likely not going to tote a semi-auto AK-47 or AR-15 around in town for personal defense, but damn...it would make a mother of a deterrent. Only gangstas are likely to tote such things around, and then, that's only in areas where law enforcement is so poor that the g's can just run roughshod over the streets....and then at that...likely they DO have fully capable assault rifles. The advantage I'd have over them is, most of them are not very good shots.

The original "assault rifle" was the German StG44, the Sturmgewehr, which means (literally) "storm rifle", like for "storming a position". The AK-47 was inspired by this design. That was the purpose of an assault rifle...to storm a defended position.

I do plan to own an AK or an AR (or both...they both have their advantages). Granted, in tight quarters, they are not ideal for home defense, (shotguns and pistols are better suited) but again, they do make a good deterrent for things like looters during the aftermath of hurricanes or disasters.


Sigh....it is as I've said before, and will always say: (granted, I saw this somewhere, but I keep it as mantra against those who would take away my freedom to defend myself...)

"I'll keep my guns, money, and freedom. You can keep the change."
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  #20  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:02 PM
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As a liberal, I'm not against gun ownership. I do think it needs to be hard to get one. I don't know how hard it is now, because I have no interest. But I don't think you should just walk in, hey I wanna gun, here's some cash, k thanks, bye.

Yes, I believe every weapon should be registered.

I know you want your guns, you want the best. You want your AK's. Fine.

But I'll ask conservatives the same question they ask about marriage: where do you draw the line?
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