[starbase63]

Orci has said the IDW NT comics are canon...if so, Mitchell is dead.

Khan wasn't in Starfleet.

The bad guy is Garth Of Izar.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Originally Posted by samwiseb

Possibly. However it's easy to underestimate the possibilities of storytelling. The Wrath of Khan covers 'space seed' with just a couple lines of dialogue. And even a ST09-style flashback covering 'WNMHGB' wouldn't derail the film too much. We've always been allowed a liberal interpretation of what's canon, and people in general won't necessarily regard the current comics as any more canon than Countdown. In both cases, the comics are out there for whoever is curious. Many people still have motivational problems with Nero from the last movie, so it's not like such a multimedia crossover is necessarily advised. I don't get the impression either of us (at this point) thinks it's Nero anyway, so this is all hypothetical.

I just don't see it. I don't see them just glossing over the heart of the Mitchell story like that. People here put too much weight on those comics, the movies have to stand on their own two feet. And the last one did, Countdown was just a disposable marketing gimmick. Most people who saw the movie didn't even know it existed.

[kevin]

I think the first thing to discover is just who he IS playing. Because reading more about the 9 minute prologue he still doesn't perfectly fit either Khan OR Mitchell as things stand.

[jla1987]

Originally Posted by kevin

I think the first thing to discover is just who he IS playing. Because reading more about the 9 minute prologue he still doesn't perfectly fit either Khan OR Mitchell as things stand.

I'm beginning to think its neither of them. The 9 minute teaser does slightly suggest a godlike character. Could be Garth... Could be Apollo :P Doubtful on Mitchell. What other 'gods' have we met in TOS?

Definitely doesn't sound like Khan, but if it is we're in for a radically different take.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

That's kind of what I'm saying, I'm thinking it might not be either of them as well.

[horatio]

The crucial question is whether the iconic TOS character remark was truthful or not. In my opinion only Khan and Mitchell qualify as iconic TOS villains while Garth of Izar doesn't and I think their characters are fairly flexible. Khan can be found anywhere and become a member of Starfleet, all that is fixed about him is that he is an Augment on a sleeper ship. Mitchell can virtually do anything, all that is fixed about him is that he is an ambitious and slightly playful friend of Kirk.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

That's kind of what I'm saying, I'm thinking it might not be either of them as well.

Yeah, I'm coming round to that a lot again. That or a significant reinterpretation.

Basically, Cumberbatch appears to already be on Earth at the start as implied by the more detailed prologue descriptions (which I don't know who read those or didn't) and also it seems as if the film kicks off around 18 months after the last film ended. It just does not fit them as we knew before.

[omegaman]

Cumby's a bad *** for sure, but we haven't seen his and Kirk's common foe… yet.

[samwiseb]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

I just don't see it. I don't see them just glossing over the heart of the Mitchell story like that. People here put too much weight on those comics, the movies have to stand on their own two feet. And the last one did, Countdown was just a disposable marketing gimmick. Most people who saw the movie didn't even know it existed.

Since it's looking more and more like it isn't Mitchell (or Khan) and we've all been had, I don't see that it really matters. I agree about the need of the movie to stand alone. It would automatically do so by its own nature, since as you've pointed out most people wouldn't read the comics. I don't care to speculate exactly how a WNMHGB sequel would stand alone, since that no longer appears to be what we're getting. Even when the trailer looked like that to me, it still seemed contrived in retrospect.