[kevin]

I'd agree on the last line there.

I mean, I think if Khan is it.............it's a kind of simple enough idea of he would be discovered by others (Klingon's?) and awakened by them. So it's like 'what if.......Khan made it back to Earth first instead?'. Although what red foliage covered planets, volcanic interiors, 'family', Starships rising from oceans and how he would have the ability and knowledge to (seemingly literally) bring down the fleet all have to do with it would all be very unclear.

Unless he's actually neither!

[omegaman]

"I too would like a regular space exploration story"

Unfortunately these only work for TV shows. TMP failed because it was too long and cerebral… then comes along TWOK and that's the current formula that works…is adhered to…and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Originally Posted by samwiseb

Well if it were Khan, where would he be returning from? From exile into space? That could work. Maybe this movie is what would have happened if 'Space Seed' had not.

If it was Mitchell, I suppose he returns from whatever abyss he went to after either Kirk or Spock (can't remember who, although this time Dehner wasn't even there) phasered him in WNMHGB. Although on further reflection, why would he be waiving a gun around if he's got telekinesis? Also his eyes look pretty normal to me.

I too would like a regular space exploration story. I think the broader epic 'movie' format requires that something would already be happening though (ie, it wouldn't be an exterior shot, cue fanfare, begin reading Captain's Log).

The problem there is, WNMHGB hasn't happened in this timeline, and those comics don't count.

[samwiseb]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

The problem there is, WNMHGB hasn't happened in this timeline, and those comics don't count.

I think that's still up to the Orci/Kurtzman Supreme Court. Last they said on the matter, they were deliberately dropping hints of the new movie into those comics.

[samwiseb]

Originally Posted by omegaman

"I too would like a regular space exploration story"

Unfortunately these only work for TV shows. TMP failed because it was too long and cerebral… then comes along TWOK and that's the current formula that works…is adhered to…and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

And yet, I would argue that The Voyage Home and The Final Frontier were both about exploration. Though it is true that one of those really sort of sucked. TMP had a lot of things wrong with it, beginning with not even having a proper movie script from the start.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Originally Posted by samwiseb

I think that's still up to the Orci/Kurtzman Supreme Court. Last they said on the matter, they were deliberately dropping hints of the new movie into those comics.

And I'm sure that they are, but that's not the point. The point is, the movie will have to make sense on it's own merits to a general movie audience that don't know or care that those comics exist. So, you can't really tell the Mitchell story without showing Enterprise in the galactic barrier and all of that.

Yet it sounds like in the movie Enterprise is off doing their thing, and gets called home because of an emergency.

And if Mitchell didn't go through the barrier, he's just a nice guy who might have some ESP. Not a villain.

[samwiseb]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

And I'm sure that they are, but that's not the point. The point is, the movie will have to make sense on it's own merits to a general movie audience that don't know or care that those comics exist. So, you can't really tell the Mitchell story without showing Enterprise in the galactic barrier and all of that.

Yet it sounds like in the movie Enterprise is off doing their thing, and gets called home because of an emergency.

And if Mitchell didn't go through the barrier, he's just a nice guy who might have some ESP. Not a villain.

It would be no different then skipping over most of Countdown to get to ST09. But I'm no longer convinced it's Mitchell anyway. I was briefly after viewing the trailer. But he would have died (phasered to death by Kirk in that wasteland valley after Spock comes along and neckpinches him) with only his godlike powers to possibly bring him back -powers he does not appear to manifest in the trailer. And if the comics are not canon, this one would have been on its way to publishing at the very time that they indicated they were.

I'm no longer convinced it's either of them, him or Khan. I think we've all been had.

[kevin]

Quite possibly.

They may have used the fan begat Khan fever to give the perfect cover for four years to go off, sit in the corner and decide on someone else completely while half of fandom talks about Khan. They couldn't really have fabricated a better misdirection for themeselves if they had tried to make one up.

If that's the case of course!

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Originally Posted by samwiseb

It would be no different then skipping over most of Countdown to get to ST09. But I'm no longer convinced it's Mitchell anyway. I was briefly after viewing the trailer. But he would have died (phasered to death by Kirk in that wasteland valley after Spock comes along and neckpinches him) with only his godlike powers to possibly bring him back -powers he does not appear to manifest in the trailer. And if the comics are not canon, this one would have been on its way to publishing at the very time that they indicated they were.

I'm no longer convinced it's either of them, him or Khan. I think we've all been had.

It would be very different than Countdown. There is nothing in Countdown you need to enjoy the movie. There is nothing essential there, by design. But to do a Mitchell story, you would need to show why he is what he is. It's an essential part of the story. It's not comparable to Countdown, which was completely disposable, at all.

As you may remember, I don't even consider Countdown to be canon.

[samwiseb]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

It would be very different than Countdown. There is nothing in Countdown you need to enjoy the movie. There is nothing essential there, by design. But to do a Mitchell story, you would need to show why he is what he is. It's an essential part of the story. It's not comparable to Countdown, which was completely disposable, at all.

As you may remember, I don't even consider Countdown to be canon.

Possibly. However it's easy to underestimate the possibilities of storytelling. The Wrath of Khan covers 'space seed' with just a couple lines of dialogue. And even a ST09-style flashback covering 'WNMHGB' wouldn't derail the film too much. We've always been allowed a liberal interpretation of what's canon, and people in general won't necessarily regard the current comics as any more canon than Countdown. In both cases, the comics are out there for whoever is curious. Many people still have motivational problems with Nero from the last movie, so it's not like such a multimedia crossover is necessarily advised. I don't get the impression either of us (at this point) thinks it's Nero anyway, so this is all hypothetical.