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  #41  
Old 11-26-2012, 03:26 AM
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TUC and FC showed that Trek can be (or, taking into account the high quality of the movies, should be) utterly dark as long as there is light at the end. In the Pale Moonlight showed that you do not even need that. I think cynicism is far worse than darkness. Trek characters can and should make errors or nasty things for the sake of principle or the Federation but once they start to not give a sh*t Trek is in serious trouble.
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  #42  
Old 11-26-2012, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by samwiseb View Post
I'm sort of at a loss as to what on the ST front would constitute dark if Nemesis doesn't. I would think not Wrath of Khan, because Nemesis already mirrors that one too closely.

The Undiscovered Country is moody, but not dark. And its darkness is undermined by a lot of classic TOS-style campy humor (assuming the camp was even intentional; after 20 years I still can't tell). First Contact likewise has too many humorous turns in its subplots to really be considered dark. Ditto ST09.

DS9, I think one would have to go through in much greater depth to evaluate whether it's dark or not. On the average, I would say probably not very.

The Search for Spock maybe? I mean what else is left...

There was a time when PG-13 for Star Trek was perceived as the new exception rather than the rule. While I would agree most of the target audience could handle a 'strong' PG-13 that was borderline R, ST just doesn't seem to me the type of franchise that would. Compared to Nolan's Batman, or a lot of the 'psychological thriller' horror flicks that are PG-13.
Well, I guess I can see dark is what it's aiming for, but I don't really find it that way. Minus the obvious set design, colour scheme and lighting aspects. I know there are moments but it's all kind of half hearted to me. It isn't committing to going too far over into that field. I don't think any of the films are seriously and sustainably dark as such, there's some intensity to some sequences but not any kind of unrelentingly so kind of aspect.

It's not that I'm saying I wouldn't in the past have considered it 'dark' but I think that when you look back at it ten years later and then think about some of the films and TV shows that have came since.............it's not AS dark as I maybe would have called it a few years ago. Time changes your perception of things. Like DS9 which I would probably say gets pretty murky in places and puts it's characters into more difficult moral scenarios by the end of the War than I think any other show did. I would still call it relatively dark in places after these years but sure, it pales compared to some of the things in Nu-BSG still.

I dunno, it depends what you wanna call 'dark'. 'Dark' Trek may simply remain a few shades lighter for all it's efforts than other series and movies.
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Last edited by kevin : 11-26-2012 at 05:39 AM.
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  #43  
Old 12-02-2012, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
TUC and FC showed that Trek can be (or, taking into account the high quality of the movies, should be) utterly dark as long as there is light at the end. In the Pale Moonlight showed that you do not even need that. I think cynicism is far worse than darkness. Trek characters can and should make errors or nasty things for the sake of principle or the Federation but once they start to not give a sh*t Trek is in serious trouble.
That reminds me, I need to buy the soundtrack for TUC.

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  #44  
Old 12-02-2012, 10:51 AM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
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That reminds me, I need to buy the soundtrack for TUC.

Is that the new one from Intrada that came out this year? Yes, you most definitely do.
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