[omegaman]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

Actually, it was probably closer to 40 hours that my power was out, but still. That's nothing compared to what people closer to the shore or in places like Staten Island are going through. Those places are like a war zone, complete with gas rationing. We got our cars filled up before the storm hit.

Smart move Tom.

[martok2112]

Indeed, I was told by one who is more in tune with the political system than I am the same thing you said, Kevin...that once a candidate reaches 270, it is mathematically impossible for the other candidate to even conceive of coming out ahead...

So, yeah, I kinda felt like a fool this morning, typing what I did.

[horatio]

Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin

I think that the Republican party failed because they aren't selling themselves to a wide enough demographic, the white male vote isn't enough to win on anymore. I think there is a large pool of untapped voters out there that would go for a small government, fiscally conservative message that is socially liberal. I think that is the future for the Republican party if they want to compete in the 21st century. I think they need to do a better job courting non white demographics. I also think that Romney was just not a strong candidate, I felt that way from the beginning. A guy like Chris Christie would have won, I think. The republicans botched an opportunity here, a bad economy usually spells doom on the incumbent.

But isn't Romney basically a guy like Bloomberg, a former businessman with liberal (liberal meaning liberal in the classical sense and not, as it is often used, as short form for left-liberal) views who implemented fairly centrist politics while he was governor? Isn't the discussion in the Republican party about Romney not having been a hardcore conservative who merely followed the party platform and pretended to care about abortion and all that stuff for the sake of the election basically correct?

I totally agree with you that social views change over time, that the US is becoming (even) more ethnically mixed and that representatives have to reflect those changes but I also think that one serious problem of our time is that we no more have conservatives and social democrats but right-liberals and left-liberals.
I think a good conservative should not just be liberal, have some economic competence and so on but also care about actual conservative values. This might imply a slightly antiquated view upon gender or race but it also implies caring about the conservation of families, nature and the well-being of the working class. McCain would be an example for such an old-school conservative.

About the word fiscal conservatism, first of all Econ 101 tells us that we, the entire world, has needed massive deficit spending during the Great Recession and second, sincere fiscal conservatives (the current Republicans pretend to care about public debt in order to rationalize tax cuts) like yourself have no influence at all upon the actual politics of the GOP:

[kevin]

Originally Posted by martok2112

Indeed, I was told by one who is more in tune with the political system than I am the same thing you said, Kevin...that once a candidate reaches 270, it is mathematically impossible for the other candidate to even conceive of coming out ahead...

So, yeah, I kinda felt like a fool this morning, typing what I did.

Nah, I wouldn't. The way of calling states sometimes probably gives rise to mistakes but I would think even though states can usually be called before all votes are counted, they would usually be sure before they did.

But then, there have been times when perhaps political manouverings try and pronounce a winner to psychologically try and get first word out. I think that has happened before.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Originally Posted by horatio

But isn't Romney basically a guy like Bloomberg, a former businessman with liberal (liberal meaning liberal in the classical sense and not, as it is often used, as short form for left-liberal) views who implemented fairly centrist politics while he was governor? Isn't the discussion in the Republican party about Romney not having been a hardcore conservative who merely followed the party platform and pretended to care about abortion and all that stuff for the sake of the election basically correct?

I totally agree with you that social views change over time, that the US is becoming (even) more ethnically mixed and that representatives have to reflect those changes but I also think that one serious problem of our time is that we no more have conservatives and social democrats but right-liberals and left-liberals.
I think a good conservative should not just be liberal, have some economic competence and so on but also care about actual conservative values. This might imply a slightly antiquated view upon gender or race but it also implies caring about the conservation of families, nature and the well-being of the working class. McCain would be an example for such an old-school conservative.

About the word fiscal conservatism, first of all Econ 101 tells us that we, the entire world, has needed massive deficit spending during the Great Recession and second, sincere fiscal conservatives (the current Republicans pretend to care about public debt in order to rationalize tax cuts) like yourself have no influence at all upon the actual politics of the GOP:

I would say that Romney probably would have been a more moderate President than he was letting on. I think he got pulled further right than he normally is by the primaries. The American system can have that effect. I think he would have gone more to the center once in office.

But that was also his biggest problem, nobody really knows what he stood for, because he waffled so much and said just about anything he thought people wanted to hear. All politicians do that to one degree or another, but he takes it to a whole other level. He just wasn't a strong candidate in my opinion.

I really didn't like either of my choices going into this election.

[horatio]

I agree and like to add that on the other side there isn't nearly as much criticism of Obama because he won and because of plain pseudo-progressive stupidity. You know the type, people who think that Obama is a great president because he has some rhetorical skills or people who think that he is a peacenik just because he won the Nobel peace prize. You evaluate politics by the naked outcome and not by the stupid glitter.

A stable political system has to always lean towards the centre and rely on compromise but it also requires politicians with principles and balls of steels. In my opinion neither Romney's nor Obama's centrism would have been respectively have been and will be beneficial in any way.

[martok2112]

20 States have petitions by citizens for seccession from US

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...190210006.html

Interesting. One of the first things that jumps out at me is this....such states, being their own countries, essentially, will have to redux their constitutions, since they will no longer be under the protection of the Constitution of the United States.

The upside of this: Such states get to determine their own laws.

The downside: Certain states might enact laws that all of a sudden fly in the face of anti-discrimination (although I'd love to see Affirmative Action go right out the frakking window). The list goes on. Certain states might also revert back to some rather extremist old school views, which may well endanger certain folks.

Two states could go to war. (Not saying a definitive pair, just suggesting the idea that any two independent states could.)

I pray I'm wrong in some aspects....the last thing I want to see is a new Civil War.

[Captain Tom Coughlin]

Nothing will come of that. NYC has had petitions to secede from NY state, Staten Island once petitioned to secede from NYC. Texas has had a secession movement forever, it's all just noise.

And if you read the article, it says Texas has a leading number of votes at 23,000, Which is absolutely nothing in a state that size. It's just noise.

[samwiseb]

Quite funny actually.

[martok2112]

Indeed....but I don't know that there's been an outcry for secession quite this widespread.

But yeah, likely won't happen.