The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Off Topic Discussions > Batman - The Dark Knight Rises *Spoilers in thread*
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 07-24-2012, 04:07 PM
chator's Avatar
chator chator is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,261
Default

I loved Catwoman in this, they should have cut out Talia. I think the character of Talia/Miranda Tate undercut the Wayne/Kyle romance, and the character of Bane as villain. I'm confused, wasn't Talia, Lucard's daughter? Wasn't that the message of the Lucard vision? If so, how can she then be Ras Al Ghul's daughter?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:37 PM
Saquist's Avatar
Saquist Saquist is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,257
Default

I saw the movie again last night and it holds up well except I finally noticed a big glaring flaw in the plot.

There was no reason why they didn't blow up the city immediately.
They knew the core would eventually blow up
They never made any attempt to escape
Talia had to have known that Bruce Wayne was the one that killed her father because Bane knew.

Yet we languish months to let the core explode for no reason.
She could have killed Bruce her self Bane and everyone in Gotham at any time. This is glaring plot hole. It reduces my enjoyment of the film because I realisze I watching explosions and action and fighting that didn't really have a purpose. Thumbs down on Dark Knight Rises.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-04-2012, 03:21 PM
chator's Avatar
chator chator is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
I saw the movie again last night and it holds up well except I finally noticed a big glaring flaw in the plot.

There was no reason why they didn't blow up the city immediately.
They knew the core would eventually blow up
They never made any attempt to escape
Talia had to have known that Bruce Wayne was the one that killed her father because Bane knew.

Yet we languish months to let the core explode for no reason.
She could have killed Bruce her self Bane and everyone in Gotham at any time. This is glaring plot hole. It reduces my enjoyment of the film because I realisze I watching explosions and action and fighting that didn't really have a purpose. Thumbs down on Dark Knight Rises.
Actually, the film is flawed in several respects, from the editing, to the illogical plot, and poorly stringed together story-telling, to the over-use of new secondary characters (John Blake, Talia, Selina Kyle), and the under-use of the primary secondary characters (Alfred, Lucius, Gordon). They don't build-up the Bane/Batman showdown well enough, and the film never felt like a thriller for the reasons you cited. The article below gets into some of the major plot holes, http://www.slashfilm.com/15-bothered...=zergnet_27052
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-04-2012, 04:15 PM
Quark's Avatar
Quark Quark is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Santa Monica, California
Posts: 2,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chator View Post
I loved Catwoman in this, they should have cut out Talia. I think the character of Talia/Miranda Tate undercut the Wayne/Kyle romance, and the character of Bane as villain.
Although I highly enjoyed the film and saw it three times and counting I would have to agree with you about that point. It's funny you should mention this, but I was thinking the exact same thing. Why wasn't there a romance between Wayne and Kyle? Perhaps Nolan didn't want to bring any tip of the hat to Batman Returns and put the emphasis on someone else, leaving Catwoman in the dark and highly independent. But yeah, who knows. But then again, if I would know that Kyle would steal my parent's necklace...I'm not sure if I would be in a rush to get with them either. But remember, Talia was the one that Bruce entrusted the company with. She was the new head of Wayne Enterprises and she was the one who allowed Bane gain access to the secret weapons/machines going on underground. And plus, she was at his mansion when the power went out so things got a little romantic. It was just for the moment kind of thing. I'm guessing.
__________________
*The word "dabo" means "I will give" in Latin, and "Gold" in Aramaic.

J.J. "Binks" Abrams is taking over sci-fi!
Fans Expendable
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-04-2012, 04:30 PM
chator's Avatar
chator chator is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark View Post
Although I highly enjoyed the film and saw it three times and counting I would have to agree with you about that point. It's funny you should mention this, but I was thinking the exact same thing. Why wasn't there a romance between Wayne and Kyle? Perhaps Nolan didn't want to bring any tip of the hat to Batman Returns and put the emphasis on someone else, leaving Catwoman in the dark and highly independent. But yeah, who knows. But then again, if I would know that Kyle would steal my parent's necklace...I'm not sure if I would be in a rush to get with them either. But remember, Talia was the one that Bruce entrusted the company with. She was the new head of Wayne Enterprises and she was the one who allowed Bane gain access to the secret weapons/machines going on underground. And plus, she was at his mansion when the power went out so things got a little romantic. It was just for the moment kind of thing. I'm guessing.
Given the way the story unfolded, you're right. But it didn't have to unfold that way, it could have been written differently. I would have completely cut out Miranda Tate/Talia, since Bane represents Ras Al Ghul's legacy. The parts for Tate, some of them anyway, could have been rewritten for Catwoman/Selina Kyle. In the comics, there was a romance between Wayne/Kyle, the movie should have played that up. Instead, we have a guilt-ridden Kyle, who led Batman/Wayne to his defeat, get teary-eyed at the thought of Batman/Wayne dying to save the city near the end. It makes no sense for Batman to even trust her, the way she betrayed him like that, then she goes against character and shows up at the last minute to kill Bane? Senseless. Here are more things that didn't work, http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/fea...=zergnet_27191
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-04-2012, 05:12 PM
Saquist's Avatar
Saquist Saquist is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,257
Default

Yes I have to agree with that first one almost entirely.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:58 PM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,077
Default

I would have to agree with all the points on the slashfilm list. Particularly the ones about Blake and about Bruce's return to Gotham.

I also have to agree with the introduction comment that Nolan repeatedly appears to get away with clumsy (and in the above case of Blake downright lazy and WTF? style) writing, serious logic issues etc in his films that other directors would be torn apart for. And have been. This is why I've always tempered my liking for his films with some of the very real problems he has. I probably wouldn't mind if only people didn't try and put him on a pedestal that he maybe shouldn't be on.

That said, TDKR is still better than Batman & Robin.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist

Last edited by kevin : 08-04-2012 at 11:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-05-2012, 08:19 AM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,207
Default

Um, I would hope it's better than Batman and Robin. Isn't that supposed to be the worst of the series? It's the one I've avoided at all costs based on word of mouth.

Nolan does seem overrated, even though I like him as a director. I'm not sure why he (seems to) get a free pass where other writer/directors do not.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-05-2012, 08:21 AM
Saquist's Avatar
Saquist Saquist is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,257
Default

I wouldn't go that far as remove the "pedestal".
He''s an accomplished director by rote. Recognizing his past skills in no way exemplifies him has a perfect deity of some sort. "success is not permanent and failure is not fatal."

failure is failure
Who knows what was behind this lapse.
If I had to guess it's the age old story of vaunted director and writer pressed for time or even creative differencences such as Sam Rami's Spiderman 3. What ever it is he'll have other opportunities to redeem himself and perhaps even recognize the errors but this is why I tell you constantly that judging a movie should be more about it's mechanics and less of an importance on it's enjoyment factor which is more often than not so subjective it's could even be called denial. Enjoyment is great, it's fantastic, but it doesn't tell us about the film it tells about the person watching it.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-05-2012, 08:27 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiseb View Post
Um, I would hope it's better than Batman and Robin. Isn't that supposed to be the worst of the series? It's the one I've avoided at all costs based on word of mouth.
Yeah, that was more of an attempt at a gag.

It was on TV last night, I started watching it..............I soon wanted to claw my eyes out and barely fifteen minutes had passed.

Quote:
Nolan does seem overrated, even though I like him as a director. I'm not sure why he (seems to) get a free pass where other writer/directors do not.
I blame the internet.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:34 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.