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  #11  
Old 04-06-2012, 01:09 PM
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kevin kevin is offline
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I disagree that he's erred. He can only have done that once some sort of contact has been made and we can spend a while evaluating how it went.

Just as she hasn't erred either.

They just have entirely different theories about what could occur. They can't as yet be labelled as correct or incorrect.

They don't even need to be 'violent conquerors' in the literal direct sense...........they just have to be a sufficiently large civilisation with needs to be served. That's after all at the root of several co-existence problems here on Earth as well. Even advanced civilisations (or countries/alliances) with art, culture, music and supplies spent hundreds of years fighting it out amongst themselves to be dominant or for a variety of reasons as well as with the weaker groups lower down the chain. That sort of activity may not yet be strictly over either.

You possibly couldn't even tell who was 'right' over the short term in the scenario either. IF a contact was made it could be some time before something went wrong or before differences arose sufficiently between us and whomever we encountered that could lead to problems (what if they had no 'God' to believe in? Would some people try and convert them?) along the way.

Until it happens though, it's all just hypothesis.
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Last edited by kevin : 04-06-2012 at 01:13 PM.
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  #12  
Old 04-06-2012, 01:13 PM
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Captain Tom Coughlin Captain Tom Coughlin is offline
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There has never in the entire history of the world been a single day of peace. There is constant conflict somewhere on the globe. Peace is a relative scale.
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  #13  
Old 04-06-2012, 01:21 PM
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kevin kevin is offline
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And that applies even in Star Trek. How many wars and conflicts do we know the Federation was involved in over the years?

Yes, the main Federation society was all very nice and 'advanced'. But they still seemed to get themselves into plenty of ongoing Wars and skirmishes as they tried to push their influence around.

Even the Dominion War was not the sole blame of the Dominion. Again, the Federation went into another quadrant quite arrogantly dismissive over the warnings they got about another power already being present there.
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  #14  
Old 04-06-2012, 01:42 PM
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Star Trek showed what will happen when we continue along our path, WWIII, nuclear and eugenic horrors, cultural decay and so on and what will happen once we start to cooperate on a global level, space exploration.
You have to play the natural selection game in your head if you wanna think about hypothetical spacefaring species. Cooperation is a necessary trait for long-run survival. Doesn't matter when you are a just an intelligent animal, both the nasty chimpanses and the "make love not war" bonobos do roughly equally well. But once you build nuclear weapons, once your civilization changes the climate, once you become very powerful you will either kill yourself or moderate and contain this immense power you wield.

Insectoids who are by nature quite collective (it might very well be the case that insects, if they exist on other planets and if they can become as intelligent as us, are statistically speaking better able than primates to sustain a civilization) respectively lifeforms who have developed a stable and homogenous society, the Romulans being the obvious example from Trek, can be nasty fellows who survive in the long-run. Other than that the hypothetical folks out there would have to be nicer than we are (the UFP is nicer than we are), otherwise they would have blown themselves to smithereens long ago.
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Old 04-06-2012, 01:50 PM
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kevin kevin is offline
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And Star Trek is as hypothetical a future as any sci-fi.

Yes, Humans co-operate and do great things. They also still fight and engage in conflicts with each other on a daily basis from neighbour to neighbour upwards and even Star Trek is not immune from that. The Federation is a perfectly 'nice' power for the most part and I ran out of fingers trying to think of the conflicts that we know it's been involved in.

The idea of the human race coming together to reach the start does not negate the potential for further conflict once amongst them depending on who we meet and who has both the literal upper hand and how that is dealt with and more importantly, how any differences are dealt with. It's one thing to have learned in isolation to be responsible with technology you've developed. But when you are not in isolation anymore I don't necessarily believe that holds if technology isn't where you come unstuck.

It could be shaking hands the wrong way!

Again, the historical context would be the old European Countries who spent a few hundred years fighting each other routinely (despite having developed civilisations that were perfectly nice and had societal rules and laws and art and culture of their own) until eventually it all came to a couple of heads.

But when we go out into space, that is a cycle that will begin again. How it goes, nobody knows!

I'm not saying it wouldn't happen the way you envisage. I'm saying it's one of several possible ways it could play out. Hawking envisages other problems (and I am certainly nowhere near that optimistic to imagine problems would not arise somewhere, most assuredly when humans are in the mix).
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Last edited by kevin : 04-06-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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