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  #21  
Old 12-08-2010, 09:49 AM
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The most "dangerous" thing in the leaked cables so far (all on low level secrecy by the way) was that Arab leaders want the US to attack Iran. I doubt that Iranian secret services didn't know this already or that this revelation will make the situation in the Middle East more volatile.
On the contrary, all the information rather helps the populations of several countries to learn interesting things about their governments which should after all be by and for the people.

About libertarianism, I think that all concentration of power should be limited not at least because the main assumption of the free market model is that nobody wields any power (and, guess what, it doesn't work when this assumption is violated).
That's the great legacy of the Austrian school (which I personally am not too fond of as it doesn't offer any insights into more complicated economic issues) and I always thought that libertarians in the US like Ron Paul follow these lines of thought.

PS: First the "free world" attacked Wikileaks, i.e. froze their funds, announced that Assange should be assassinated and so on. The cyberattacks by friends of Wikileaks have been a retalitation to these very actions. So please don't confuse cause and effect.

Last edited by horatio : 12-08-2010 at 09:52 AM.
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  #22  
Old 12-08-2010, 09:54 AM
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No, the infrastructure leaks were the most damaging. Ron Paul generally does follow the line of thinking that you outline. I'm not a libertarian in the Paul mold. I do have some leanings in that direction though. I admit I'm a bit more of a hawk in foriegn policy than the libertarian model.
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  #23  
Old 12-08-2010, 09:57 AM
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I haven't confused cause and effect, I'm aware of the timeline.
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  #24  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:01 AM
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In my opinion these infrastructure information is hardly high secrecy. Any halfwit knows that a chemical factory or an oil pipeline make fine targets.
But I agree to some degree, the editorial efforts of particularly the first leak about Afghanistan have been very bad. They have learned though (with the help of other transparency advocates, not with the help of the US government whom they asked to help concerning not endangering people!) and erased names now and their publishing goes now bit by bit and hand in hand with what the newspapers release instead of, as before, everything at once.

So you think that this organization is illegal and that the so called "free world" has a right to destroy it and call for the assassination of Assange? I don't know my American constitution that well but last time I checked a foreigner cannot be prosecuted for treason, last time I checked treason laws are reserved for disclosure of high secrecy information like e.g. nuclear ones (the Founding Fathers had obvious reasons to not easily call for the crime of treason) and last time I checked criminals get trialed and not assassinated by order of the POTUS.
In this instance it is crystal clear who the enemy of the free world is.

Last edited by horatio : 12-08-2010 at 10:08 AM.
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  #25  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
No, the infrastructure leaks were the most damaging. Ron Paul generally does follow the line of thinking that you outline. I'm not a libertarian in the Paul mold. I do have some leanings in that direction though. I admit I'm a bit more of a hawk in foriegn policy than the libertarian model.
From a security standpoint the release of the infrastructure and important sites information was incredibly stupid on the part of the people who released them, and strongly indicate an unwillingness to stop for a second and think about the possible negative repercussions of revealing such information.

But I think that's a given anyway.

I don't see how anyone can think that telling the world what the most important places are for vital aspects of security and population protection does not constitute an information dump of the best kind for prospective terrorists. It's like me telling a thief where I keep my money and how to access it and then leaving him alone for a few hours.

This however does not mean I condone the likes of Palin calling for the assasination of individuals connected to Wikileaks. I do not, and would not do so. But I think Wikileaks is starting to cross the line between revealing interesting information and putting out information which could endanger others.

However, I'm dubious about the sex allegations against Assange at this point and I think it does smack of a take-down campaign at this stage of the game as well.
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Last edited by kevin : 12-08-2010 at 10:11 AM.
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  #26  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:07 AM
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It's a list of targets, and would certainly help attackers prioritize targets. I view what they have done as an attack against the United States so yes, I advocate them being shut down. I draw the line short of assassination though. Assange in reality is just a mouthpiece anyway.
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  #27  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:11 AM
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In my opinion these infrastructure information is hardly high secrecy. Any halfwit knows that a chemical factory or an oil pipeline make fine targets.
The difference is that there are a lot of different chemical plants in the world and not all of them would affect infrastructure to the same degree as others.

Indicating more specifically which ones do and where they are in the chain is kind of doing half the job for the others.
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  #28  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:12 AM
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The difference is that there are a lot of different chemical plants and not all of them would affect infrastructure to the same degree as others.

Telling specifically which ones do and where they are in the chain is the kind is doing half the job for the others.
Exactly, and it's a pretty substantial list that they have from what I understand.
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  #29  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:13 AM
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I checked the German targets and, guess what, all the companies are in the yellow pages. So let's ban the friggin' yellow pages, they might be useful to a terrorist who wants to find the next factory which produces weapons or chemicals. I know sh*t about chemicals but I as well as any other German citizen could name you the location of the biggest chemical factory. If an Islamist wanted to attack it he wouldn't need Wikileaks.

Anyway, I am the first one to admit that these folks make mistakes. But the focus upon these few mistakes and the rage against Wikileaks is just meant to deflect from the nasty sh*t they uncovered. A good government needs well-informed people to function well.
Halliburton and Blackwater, there you have two names which stand for public theft and murder, there you have Criminals In Action. Go after these fu**ards, not some petty hackers.

Last edited by horatio : 12-08-2010 at 10:21 AM.
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  #30  
Old 12-08-2010, 10:18 AM
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The Yellow pages doesn't tell you what targets are considered priorities, that's a weak analogy
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