The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Star Trek XI: The Movie > John Cho on Star Trek Sequel: No Decisions Have Been Made
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 04-18-2010, 04:09 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

I simply don't care for "art" which was influenced too strongly by business interests because it is sold on a mass market at the cost of creativity and coherent vision. And my impression of ST09 is that of a movie which tries to satisfy Trek newcomers as well as oldschoolers too hardly.
I see no reason to mince my words and clearly state my opinion about two writers I consider as bad and I neither care to play the self-delusional "oh, they will surely change 180° in the next movie, oh, they had to set up the characters in this movie, oh they can't achieve everything at once" game. BS, they will produce the same stuff because it sold very well the first time. Paramount has no reason to change its business strategy or ask its writers to write less pop-ish.
That's great for the majority of people who liked ST09, that's bad for the minority of people who disliked it, simple as that.

Last edited by horatio : 04-18-2010 at 04:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-18-2010, 04:11 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

I see no reason to either - which is why I don't pretend to have a hard-on for Meyer.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-18-2010, 04:18 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

That's fine but to me there is a clear difference between between the folks who worked on TWOK and the folks who worked on ST09. I prefer the former product because it is artistically more integer to me.
I don't know if one could already call it a pattern, but aren't the similarities between two subsequent movies with a fan in the writer stuff interesting? Khan reused twice, Romulans messed up twice ... I start to have quite some prejudices about hiring fans to write Trek scripts.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-18-2010, 04:38 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Certainly I would concur that just because a writer is a fan is no barometer for being able to write a good script or an enjoyable film. We've been there done that and indeed it comes with it's own baggage. It's also potentially questionable getting Star Trek actors involved in the writing process as well as scripts connected to Shatner, Nimoy and Spiner have also demonstrated.

Although I don't think there's as much difference as one might imagine.

Both were born out of a desire to re-popularise the film franchise and both involve fairly straightforward plot mechanics (the 'revenge thriller' and the 'coming-of-age myth') to wrap around their basic outlines. Both are designed to appeal to the mainstream by broadening the story towards the action side (like TOS enjoyed doing) and while perhaps they did it in different ways, both accomplished that for their respective audiences.

Now, I won't disagree with anyone who says that the Abrams film could have used more meat on it (personally I can live with it because the purpose was to essentially re-establish the characters and settings, I don't think it was strictly required to add anything else at that stage, which is why the sequel must deliver more) but Meyer and his compadres had the advantage of not actually having to spend time establishing or introducing the universe at hand.

They could jump right into the story because all the preamble was out the way. Essentially, the first Abrams film was the preamble for the new alternate timeline. So structurally it was doing what it needed to achieve that. And I'm afraid it's not BS to state that because basic storytelling is that you establish the characters/settings first before you go elsewhere. Every other movie franchise, film, TV series book, and play etc has to do this stage first. It's called the basics for a reason.

If one finds that aspect dull, fine - but let's not pretend it doesn't have to be done at some point, especially in a reboot.

I also happen to believe that writers can improve - and decline of course. Several Star Trek film and TV writers wrote scripts of varying quality. Some wrote total stinkers, some wrote total gems. And as before, I must point out that even Gene Roddenberry was not immune from that.

Now the problem is that I don't remotely hate Meyer or think he's a bad writer/director (yep, he knows how to pile on contrivances and create plotholes as well as any decent Trek writer does - past or present) but the problem is that TWOK left a legacy within the Trek movies that's as much a curse as a blessing.

It was so good as a Star Trek film that once we got into later Trek (and the naturally flowing stories of TWOK/TSFS/TVH had played out) the vast majority of the following films have been beholden to his pattern. Or the one that he and Bennett developed during the 1980s that worked then.

The TNG films did this, and so have Abrams etc because they are all in thrall to that film. Yeah, one can see why, but one can also see why writers and the studio always come back to it. It had everything in the one package but every time they try and synthesize it again it seems to work to varying degrees. I'll handily admit I prefer Star Trek to Nemesis but then I'd also admit there are times I'd rather have my trapped nerve flair up again and be bedridden than watch Nemesis again.

Go figure.

Meyer is fine - but he's just caused problems for Trek much later down the line in terms of inhibiting actual creativity in the later films.


EDIT - Shoot, that was more than I thought I had written. I must be in a rant mood this morning. Better do a Picard in 'Code of Honour' and quit before the monotony sets in.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist

Last edited by kevin : 04-18-2010 at 04:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-18-2010, 04:53 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

I would rather blame the folks who thought that they had to copy TWOK than Meyer for NEM and ST09. You are right, the prologue-movie has to set-up the characters so it is different from the following movies, but mood- and theme-wise I still don't expect much to change.
Just think about the two last Batman movies, mood-wise Gotham became nicer in the second one (to make the viewer care for the city that is attacked) but theme-wise it was virtually identical to the first one.


By the way, technically it is already afternoon but emotionally Sunday mornings might go until 5 PM or so.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-18-2010, 05:05 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Of course - everyone assigns relative 'blame' for a lot of things in Star Trek that didn't pan out over the years according to their own outlook on Trek and their own views on all the players. From Roddenberry, through Frieberger on to Berman/Piller/Moore/Braga and now Abrams/Orci and Kurtzman.

Later writers and the studio itself share in matters, I concur.


---------


Ah - How I miss the old days on this forum when about 30/40 people would dive into these kinds of discussions.

Just seems to be me and thee doing a dance these days sometimes.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-18-2010, 06:08 AM
Steve Gennarelli Steve Gennarelli is offline
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Posts: 112
Default

My only advice as a fan since the early 70's is...if you're there opening night or even at a matinee show, put your feet up, put some popcorn in your mouth. Take a suck on your $6 jumbo Coke and enjoy the latest "Confection" known as "Star Trek" and given to us this time by JJ Abrams.
The fact that we are still getting a version of "Star Trek" should be appreciated and just enjoy it like a little kid would. Get lost in the movie once the Paramount/Bad Robot logos and whatever else logos vanish.
When I was at the last movie last year, I dragged my wife to it who isn't really a "Star Trek" fan but loved William Shatner and his contribution to the original classic. We sat back and enjoyed the film like most people did. I do seem to recall some weird fellow who sat just to the right of us who was muttering under his breath throughout the movie that this was wrong and this looked off and he looked like he came right out of the "Get a Life" SNL sketch.
I wanted to tell him to try and enjoy the movie before it was done but then again being anal comes from over analyzing.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-18-2010, 06:13 AM
starwarsrcks's Avatar
starwarsrcks starwarsrcks is offline
Vice Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 3,062
Default

I wasn't a born Trekkie but after STXI it has converted me into one that just loves everything about Star Trek.
__________________



Space is disease and dangerous wrapped in darkness and silence-Leonard Bones McCoy
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:19 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.