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  #21  
Old 02-22-2010, 09:51 AM
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Captain Tom Coughlin Captain Tom Coughlin is offline
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I always wanted to see him again, I was hoping he would show up on DS9.
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  #22  
Old 02-27-2010, 06:58 PM
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Think what it comes down to is that riker and the enterprise crew were so used to captain picard's style of command that they werent able to handle the change in command and jellico's style of coammd,but jellico was an SOB that he didnt listen to his senior officers which picard did
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  #23  
Old 03-22-2010, 12:16 AM
Admiral Rand Admiral Rand is offline
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I just saw this ep. The other day and was thinking about making this thread. Anyway. I really didn't like him at all. I mean maybe I was meant to not like him but still thats not it. His command style is different yes we all agree on that. But it was more than that which made me think he was a bad captain. Like the fact that he thinks not only can he come onto a ship and think he knows everything and that his way is best and whatever he wants done needs done now. If I were him i'd come onto a ship that was not only the FLAGSHIP of the fleet and also obviously had the best CAPTAIN in the fleet or else they would have reassigned him long ago I would show some respect obviously they knew what they were doing because it worked! Now i'm not going to come on and not only talk down to the first officer who has been there for a long time and been offered many ships and decorated by Starfleet and call him a bad officer and say i don't have time to give him a chance. Obviously he doesn't need a chance he's proved himself over and over again. Not only that but he doesn't even take into consideration his opinion. He is more like "Oh well you had a three shift and it worked great for 5 years and changing it to a four shift would cause a lot of problems and make people who trusted eachother work with people they don't know and don't have faith that they would do there job. Well I don't give a S*** what you think I'm going to do it my way even if it screws up everything and gets us all killed in the end because it's my way and thats just how it's going to be" At least thats what i felt he was saying in those few words that he actually said.
Not only that but after he talked to Geordi and was like do all this stuff to the warp core in two days. And then Data was like it will take all your man power and working double shifts and all that. Later Geordi talks to Riker and says he re assigned a third of his department to Security. That makes sense oh you barely have enough people to "Get it done" now i'm going to take a third of them away from you and expect that you still "get it done" some how.
I think that not only was his command style different he was ignorant of what worked and only cared about himself and his way of doing things. It was pretty much "Well I really don't care that your stuff has been proven over and over again to work. I want to do things my way that doesn't make sense, makes people uneasy, makes people work with new people and people they don't necessarily trust as much, wears everyone out, doesn't listen to his officers, decides that ship design is messed up so he's going to redesign the ship himself, disrespects it's former captain, among other things i'm sure that I haven't mentioned.
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  #24  
Old 05-22-2010, 07:14 PM
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Tiberius1964 Tiberius1964 is offline
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Originally Posted by Admiral Rand View Post
I just saw this ep. [t]he other day...He [Jellico] is more like "Oh well you had a three shift and it worked great for 5 years and changing it to a four shift would cause a lot of problems and make people who trusted eachother work with people they don't know and don't have faith that they would do there job. Well I don't give a S*** what you think..."

...Not only that but after he talked to Geordi and was like do all this stuff to the warp core in two days. And then Data was like it will take all your man power and working double shifts and all that. Later Geordi talks to Riker and says he re assigned a third of his department to Security. That makes sense...
I saw the episode recently, too. I seem to recall a scene in which Jellico says to someone - maybe Picard before he leaves the ship - that Jellico feels that the Enterprise crew is too soft, or words to that effect; i.e., that when the crunch comes in battle against the Romulans they won't be able to get the job done. I think Jellico's trying to shock the Enterprise crew into "shape", to get them ready for war if there is one.

The error that Jellico makes in this assessment, I think, is that Picard tends to find diplomatic solutions to problems, rather than shooting his way out. So Jellico probably thinks Picard and his crew aren't war-like enough.

Evidently Jellico hasn't read his Sun Tzu since he graduated from the Academy.
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2010, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiberius1964 View Post
I seem to remember however a scene in which Troi told Riker that Jellicoe was not the confident captain that he projected to everyone, that he was consumed by doubt (not her words, probably).
The interesting thing I've always felt about that is that in the later episode 'Attached' Crusher (via her mind-link him) that Picard doesn't always know if he's doing the right thing either.

But that is of course not the kind of image that a Captain needs to project and so they have to always convey the image they are in full control.

Perhaps Jellico was simply less effective at hiding this part of himself and it showed in his more bullish shipboard policies than Picard, who may have had the same doubts from time to time but was able to collaborate with his crew more effectively.

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So I see Jellicoe as someone who feels he's in over his head, and needs to have everything go his way, as a way of keeping control of the situation. This kind of captain would probably have changed the Enterprise from 3 watch to 4 watch, instead of from 4 watch to 3 watch, just to make the point that he's in command.
I think that it might be less in over his head - in theory his past encounters with the Cardassians were what led Starfleet to put him on the Enterprise in the first place, so he shouldn't be over his head.

But I do think he was making these changes to stamp his own authority on the Enterprise, and that he had a much more dictatorial method that invited less input from his staff and more 'just follow my orders' and nothing further.

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If I were in command of a military unit (or even quasi-military unit) where sometimes lives depend on decisions, I'd want my XO to point out flaws in my plans, possible bad results of my decisions, etc. Which Riker does, but which Jellicoe, especially on first taking command, can't tolerate. If Riker had busted his butt to get everything switched over, he might have earned Jellicoe's trust and been able to trade on that later with a "But, Captain, have you considered..."

Bottom line, Riker and Jellicoe were both too stubborn.
I agree - Jellico was too bullish but Riker acted a little like a favoured child suddenly given the cold shoulder and the first time he doesn't get the glowing approval of his commanding officer (which he's been very used to) he goes in a huff about it.

Neither acted entirely professionally.
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  #26  
Old 08-21-2010, 06:26 AM
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I thought Jellico was a very good captain. If he was snippy it was because they needed to get things done quickly to deal with an emergency situation with the Cardassians. The crew of the Enterprise were stubborn and smug and resistant to taking orders. Riker in particular acted like a spoiled child.
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  #27  
Old 08-21-2010, 07:00 AM
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Emergency? Why did Jerkico change the shifts then? No half-witted boss would tell his subordinates to change their routines during an emergency situation, only fascitoid wanna-be-bosses do it.
He was a jerk and Riker was right to object and protect his crew from stupid orders that made no sense.
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  #28  
Old 08-21-2010, 11:56 AM
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In part, I think Riker did at a point act in a manner that was more huffy than professional. He was relatively used to having Picard's seal of approval.

However, it can also be argued that in the midst of an emergency it was rather short-sighted of Jellicoe to start turning the ship upside down to suit his style and add to the number of things that needed to be dealt with.

He was too cartoon a captain for the most part - deliberately set up to be the dramatic opposite of Picard.
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  #29  
Old 10-11-2010, 12:36 AM
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Emergency? Why did Jerkico change the shifts then? No half-witted boss would tell his subordinates to change their routines during an emergency situation, only fascitoid wanna-be-bosses do it.
He was a jerk and Riker was right to object and protect his crew from stupid orders that made no sense.
Jellico wanted them to move from a 3-shift schedule to a 4-shift schedule.

That would mean reduced hours per shift, and thus would reduce the chances of fatigue in a stressful situation.

Jellico was right. A man of Riker's capabilities should have been capable of "getting it done" without whining and complaining.
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  #30  
Old 10-11-2010, 09:31 AM
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Wrong, it increases stress and decreases efficiency during the first days or weeks in which the crew has to deal with a new work rythm, new people on their shifts, etc.

Jellico was a jerk who just wanted to play boss. Riker was right to object to this kind of 'unauthorized authority' which was one of the frequently occuring themes in TNG.
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