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  #141  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:49 AM
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Dominus of Megadeus Dominus of Megadeus is offline
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The Eugenics Wars and the Third World War haven't been portrayed directly in Trek, this would be pretty dark and gritty. But the indirect use of them as a background for characters like Khan, Cochrane or General Green (who again has had an impact upon Kodos and Paxton) has lead to quite interesting stories IMO which often followed the pattern from Encounter at Farpoint: this is our ugly past but we have evolved yet sometimes the demons from our past reappear.
I like such stories (another example would be TNG's Drumhead) which point put how thin the layer of civilization is, how quick decades or centuries of progress can be undone.

Good point. In my viewpoint, World War II was really a continuation of World War I--a pick up on issues not totally resolved, then twisted by a truly evil, twisted mind. I was propose that the Eugenics War and World War III are really one in the same, separated by a two or three year cessation in hostility. Perhaps World War III began due to hostilities of one nation's quest to build "the perfect solider and citizen" and another's resistance to that quest. The world's nations are extremely advanced in technology--and even on the cusp of cracking the equation for faster-than-light travel, only to be set back by the catastrophic effects of global war.

Deliciously dark and a tale timely...Medical and technology ethics...Socio-political discourse...This would be a most fascinating chapter in Trek to explore. I know that Mr. Roddenberry's desire was to show that human beings finally moved past their dark nature, but it is still worth exploring the depths that human depravity can go...If that is even POSSIBLE to imagine!
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  #142  
Old 02-07-2010, 08:51 AM
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Dominus of Megadeus Dominus of Megadeus is offline
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...You need to show hell to make the paradise (of the Federation) clearly visible.

You'd better copywrite that!
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  #143  
Old 02-07-2010, 09:26 AM
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That's the main issue - in Trek the 'hell' has never been depicted at all, only talked about by characters. FC doesn't count because we actually saw nothing of the actual devastation.

Is there value in showing it in 'Saving Private Ryan' detail?

Maybe, if it's doing something akin to BSG and relating it to the contemporary issues today. But again, that's a radical departure from the normal Trek proposition and would not be to every fans cup of tea.

The darkness of DS9 is already disavowed by some as being the very opposite of what Roddenberry wanted to depict. A series set in this time period may well get the same reaction.
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  #144  
Old 02-07-2010, 10:31 AM
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Dominus of Megadeus Dominus of Megadeus is offline
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Great point, Kevin! Hmm...The appeal of the exploration of what happened during the Eugenics War/WWIII, however is very tempting. Perhaps, rather than a series, one epic-scale movie? It doesn't even have to be labled "Star Trek", but by the time the movie approaches it's end, Lilly and Dr. Cochran can be seen at the Warp Experiment campus discussing what their flight may signify for the peace and welfare for all mankind. It can fade with the two looking up at the stars and Lilly asking, "What is that?"
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  #145  
Old 02-08-2010, 07:18 AM
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horatio horatio is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominus of Megadeus View Post
Good point. In my viewpoint, World War II was really a continuation of World War I--a pick up on issues not totally resolved, then twisted by a truly evil, twisted mind. I was propose that the Eugenics War and World War III are really one in the same, separated by a two or three year cessation in hostility. Perhaps World War III began due to hostilities of one nation's quest to build "the perfect solider and citizen" and another's resistance to that quest. The world's nations are extremely advanced in technology--and even on the cusp of cracking the equation for faster-than-light travel, only to be set back by the catastrophic effects of global war.

Deliciously dark and a tale timely...Medical and technology ethics...Socio-political discourse...This would be a most fascinating chapter in Trek to explore. I know that Mr. Roddenberry's desire was to show that human beings finally moved past their dark nature, but it is still worth exploring the depths that human depravity can go...If that is even POSSIBLE to imagine!
Precisely, the two wars seem interconnected. Fragile alliances caused WWI and probably also caused WWIII, but just like the underlying issue in the early 20th century has been the ideologies of communism and fascism and its destabilizing effects, the ideology of the late 20th / early 21st century in Trek's fictional history seems to be genetics, creating the perfect human, the uberman. Or in other words, a different incarnation of fascism.



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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
That's the main issue - in Trek the 'hell' has never been depicted at all, only talked about by characters. FC doesn't count because we actually saw nothing of the actual devastation.

Is there value in showing it in 'Saving Private Ryan' detail?

Maybe, if it's doing something akin to BSG and relating it to the contemporary issues today. But again, that's a radical departure from the normal Trek proposition and would not be to every fans cup of tea.

The darkness of DS9 is already disavowed by some as being the very opposite of what Roddenberry wanted to depict. A series set in this time period may well get the same reaction.
No, we don't need to see the details. It wouldn't be appropriate for Trek and one can be well aware of Kirk's trauma on Tarsus IV without having seen the mass-executions on-screen, one can be very well aware of the horrors of the Third World War by seeing a bunch of people living in poverty, one can be very well aware of Khan's rule on Earth after having seen Space Seed.

But we need this kind of indirect dark stuff in Trek, it often leads good stories. Conscience of the King, Space Seed and Wrath of Khan in TOS, Encounter at Farpoint and First Contact in TNG, Demons and Terra Prime in ENT ... memorable stuff.
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  #146  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:18 AM
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The Bell riots in DS9 was the closest to the "hell" that Trek has ever really depicted.
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