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  #21  
Old 01-12-2010, 07:26 PM
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I was wondering when I'd be graced by your response Horatio. I know how much of an ENT fan you are.

And I have "watched the whole goddamn Trip and T'pol romance." My original argument was that Berman and Braga can't write romantic scenes that are interesting. I don't give a crap about back rubs. I care more for Trip's state of condition after losing his sister. They didn't come close to what they could of done with that.

So you do admit that decon and neuropressure are cheap tricks. Good. I'm not alone. And yes, the outfits for the woman on TOS were ridiculous.

Enterprise is just as sterile to me as TNG and VOY are. ENT stills falls into the traps and cliche's every other Star Trek has had.
If you have seen the whole romance, you might remember that T'Pol named their cloned baby after Trip's sister, so she obviously cared deeply about Trip's loss. A revelation with quite some delay, but as I have frequently said, ENT works best as a whole. (Which is IMO rather a liability than an asset.)

I agree that the few decon scenes were just cheap eye-candy. But better cheap than none.

Neuro-pressure on the other hand wasn't about eye-candy, it was about a slow built-up of their romance. T'Pol isn't precisely the social type, so this is a rare chance for her to talk with Trip off-duty and even while they are physically close. Let's not forget that it started with sex, not with love letters. She also gets jealous when Trip performs neuro-pressure on a MACO.

That apart, I think that their bumpy relationship is more interesting in the fourth season, "Home" and "Terra Prime" are easily the best Trip/T'Pol episodes IMO.
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  #22  
Old 01-12-2010, 09:30 PM
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If you have seen the whole romance, you might remember that T'Pol named their cloned baby after Trip's sister, so she obviously cared deeply about Trip's loss. A revelation with quite some delay, but as I have frequently said, ENT works best as a whole. (Which is IMO rather a liability than an asset.)

I agree that the few decon scenes were just cheap eye-candy. But better cheap than none.

Neuro-pressure on the other hand wasn't about eye-candy, it was about a slow built-up of their romance. T'Pol isn't precisely the social type, so this is a rare chance for her to talk with Trip off-duty and even while they are physically close. Let's not forget that it started with sex, not with love letters. She also gets jealous when Trip performs neuro-pressure on a MACO.

That apart, I think that their bumpy relationship is more interesting in the fourth season, "Home" and "Terra Prime" are easily the best Trip/T'Pol episodes IMO.
I'm aware of the points and episodes you named. I'm also aware of the first episode commentary where Brannon Braga and Rick Berman discuss how they intentionally made Enterprise more sexy (obviously to appeal to the general audience, whatever, sex sells and I know this and I don't care one way or another). But to me it's like the only thing they changed about the Star Trek formula was "trying to make it more sexy."

All I'm saying...I'll I've ever been saying is that I don't like Brannon Braga and Rick Berman's writing. The relationship between T'pol and Trip is fine. I don't care. It just bugs the hell out of me when the writing is dense and nothing sparks my interest.

I just gotta use an example of a great Sci-Fi love situation....Han Solo and Princess Leia. Now that was great! Their bickering which lead to a crush would led to love was so real and believable you just loved them both!

If you want something a little more fleshed out let's go with Commander Adama and President Roslin. There love for each other at the end was so strong, so true and so believable....I don't know what else to say about that.

Babylon 5. John Sheridan and Delenn.

Wall-E and Eve. They don't even SPEAK and you're pulled in!

If two CGI characters who don't talk have a better relationship in two hours then two live action actors on a longer running TV series...something's wrong...and that something is the writers.

To summarize. It's the writers I hate....NOT the characters!
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  #23  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:39 AM
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One could claim that they didn't change the Star Trek formula, they just returned it to the sexploitation roots of TOS. Berman and Braga were often critisized for ignoring TOS entirely whereas Coto and Co. were praised for incorporating more from TOS into ENT. My mind says "contradication".

Han and Leah? Yeah, they were funny, but the Trip / T'Pol relationship was much better and deeper, especially in the last season.
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  #24  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:18 AM
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I've begun the Xindi arc again. And I've noticed something that I didn't before.

Braga and Berman suck at writing romantically interesting scenes between Trip and T'pol. They just talk some science technobabble and then take off their clothes. The excuses they come up with to get those two to strip is just ridiculous. Vulcan Neuro Pressure? Why not just call it a back rub? And why would you need to get naked for that? Professional Messages sure, but between two officers in the military? Give me a break.

Those two tried waaay to hard to give Trek sex. The whole "de-contamination orgy room?" Yeah that makes sense in the 22nd century, they've evolved so much.

Sex in film/tv doesn't bother me at all, Jolene Blalock is hot. But when it's just thrown in for flare and really doesn't add anything interesting to the subplots, it's crap writing.

Here's a way it could of worked. Trip is losing it because his sister was killed, T'pol has feelings for Trip, she comforts Trip and the two bond that way. Having someone comfort you when you lose someone is a very real and believable situation.

<-------------sipping a beer


Huh?

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  #25  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:44 AM
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<-------------sipping a beer


Huh?

Seriously. Who watches STar Trek for romances scenes anyway?
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  #26  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:44 AM
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Seriously. Who watches STar Trek for romances scenes anyway?

I dunno. I'm looking for Par'mach in all the wrong places all the time.
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  #28  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:59 AM
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Just don't invite this pair, horatio.
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:01 AM
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Just don't invite this pair, horatio.
True 'dat. But they both sport nice "pairs".
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