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  #21  
Old 12-26-2009, 11:38 AM
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Of course, I am not in the least saying I bought it completely (and even the writers have alluded to the fact as well) but it's one of those little 'pushes' that had to happen in order to basically get the last scene set up.
All they had to do to make it more believable was put the words "five years later" onscreen.
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  #22  
Old 12-26-2009, 11:46 AM
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All they had to do to make it more believable was put the words "five years later" onscreen.
See, I know where you're coming from with that.

But, from my perspective there are a couple of points that push me in the opposite direction of that approach.

1 - It breaks the flow of the film and disjoints it from the film that has preceded it. If we cut to five years later then my feeling is that the audience is going to be asking why he's getting the promotion. We've just seen him in action but now we have a huge time cut and nothing to tell us what he's done in that time. For the 'flow' of the film it's better not to have another time jump.

2 - How do we know that there hasn't been a time cut between the scene prior and his getting given command?

IMO, from watching the film there is scope for a time cut of possibly quite some time from the Enterprise breaking free of the Black Hole and the final sequence on Earth. The writers are potentially leaving this vague deliberately to allow themselves future room for manouvre. Now, I know that some (particularly detractors) take it to be only days but it actually can't be. The Enterprise, which was damaged in several areas, has to have been fully repaired first for one thing. That takes time, certainly more than mere days.

It's a matter of interpretation. And things have been kept open just enough to allow more than one at this point.
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  #23  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:23 PM
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Well do you think Kirk junior should have became captain at the end what would you have wanted someone else to take command instead?
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:35 PM
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I don't think he should have become captain at that point in his career. Someone else should have been captain.

Kevin, I agree that the movie left it open to interpretation but I think most people will take from it that he almost immediately became a Captain. Kirk's character was way too immature to take on that kind of responsibility.
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:42 PM
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By this point the movie had really lost me...as, urm, you probably know by now.

But in keeping with how the movie was. I think Chris Pine should have done the "Space...the final frontier" voice over.

Or at the very least have it begun with Leonard (Nimoy), and then concluded with Chris Pine. To get a sense of passing the baton, so to speak.

Plus, Leonard has already done the voice over.
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  #26  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:44 PM
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Kevin, I agree that the movie left it open to interpretation but I think most people will take from it that he almost immediately became a Captain. Kirk's character was way too immature to take on that kind of responsibility.
Yeah, but then I think they aren't necessarily stopping and thinking about everything connected to it. It's not likely to be years of a gap but it's not automatically the very next morning either.

It's like the whining about why Nero waited for 25 years before acting. The answer is there to be divined. You just have to pay attention to what's actually happening. And even at that, you don't have to pay that close attention!

Which is kinda ironic, considering how many detractors are so quick to say how dumb it is (and let's be brutally honest, it's not a genuis script but if it was it wouldn't entirely be TOS if it had a waterproof plot! ) - but are then apparently incapable of thinking about some aspects of it through and simply want it spelled out for them.

Go figure!
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  #27  
Old 12-26-2009, 01:02 PM
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Hmm! I can't help thinking you are defending a flaw in the movie that you wouldn't tolerate in Voyager

Obviously it's not a such a big problem for me that it would stop me buying the DVD or going to watch the next movie and it's a common thing to do in Hollywood movies. You need to have a quick seen that shows what happened next. Maybe, he could have graduated from Starfleet Academy in that scene.
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  #28  
Old 12-26-2009, 01:13 PM
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Hmm! I can't help thinking you are defending a flaw in the movie that you wouldn't tolerate in Voyager

Obviously it's not a such a big problem for me that it would stop me buying the DVD or going to watch the next movie and it's a common thing to do in Hollywood movies. You need to have a quick seen that shows what happened next. Maybe, he could have graduated from Starfleet Academy in that scene.
Well, we all have our personal preferences!! There are fans who slate the film for having the same flaws they do tolerate in Prime Universe Trek, because they dislike Abrams personally and his direction with things so far, so there's an element that such an approach works both ways.

Personally I'm not strictly trying to defend the rapidity with which he becomes Captain - I've already agreed it's a stretch anyway. However, it's not quite for me a fatal stretch and I can live with it because of the slightly contorted mechanics of reality behind what the film had to accomplish.

Besides, my objections to Voyager are far more than just silly plots and poor characters!
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Last edited by kevin : 12-26-2009 at 01:35 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12-26-2009, 01:19 PM
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I agree. We are all guilty of that to a certain extent. There is stuff I will tolerate on Voyager but not on Next Gen.

I also agree that it is not a fatal flaw. Though I can see that for some people it is just the pinnacle of a big mountain of things not to like. I fall into the "like" category more than the "dislike."

i showed the first half of the movie to a few kids in school on the last day and they enjoyed it. So it is clearly reaching a new generation of Trekkers to be So it can;t be that bad.
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  #30  
Old 12-26-2009, 01:22 PM
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I agree. We are all guilty of that to a certain extent. There is stuff I will tolerate on Voyager but not on Next Gen.

I also agree that it is not a fatal flaw. Though I can see that for some people it is just the pinnacle of a big mountain of things not to like. I fall into the "like" category more than the "dislike."

i showed the first half of the movie to a few kids in school on the last day and they enjoyed it. So it is clearly reaching a new generation of Trekkers to be So it can;t be that bad.
Well that's kinda the approach I take with everything!

If the 'likes' outweigh the 'dislikes' - no matter what they may be, then I can get onboard.

If not, then I don't care if it has Star Trek or anything else in the title - I'm not playing along with it. Everyone is the same. Then we join boards like this and thrash it all out!

In the new film's case, as with you, there is more (for me) to like than dislike! As both a movie and Star Trek!
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Last edited by kevin : 12-26-2009 at 01:26 PM.
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