The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > General Star Trek Discussions > TV Shows > Voyager > Should they have replaced Kes with Seven?
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 11-17-2009, 03:05 AM
Roysten's Avatar
Roysten Roysten is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 901
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
Again, as I've said before, KES was a good idea, poorly executed.
I agree, was an original idea for a character, would have had a great arc if done properly with her potentially dying of old age by the end of the series.

I think her best use was in Cold Fire, I wish they'd made a bit more of that episode really, after everyone was waiting for the 2nd caretaker to make an appearance it felt a bit like, 'is that it?...'
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-17-2009, 03:57 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

I prefer Kes because she is cute, innocent, warm and friendly (especially to "lower lifeforms" like the Doctor) and, last but not least, curious and eager to learn. She is THE Trek character who made the words "explore strange new worlds ..." her own.

I agree that Seven brought more conflict into the show but at the same time she dominated the show too much alongside Janeway and many stories became a bit too blunt, direct-in-your-face-like, compared to the quieter influence of Kes.
So the Janeway-Seven-show point shows that Kes wasn't the only characters who was badly or underused.

Last edited by horatio : 11-17-2009 at 04:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-17-2009, 04:13 AM
Zardoz's Avatar
Zardoz Zardoz is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere In The Future
Posts: 31,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roysten View Post
I agree, was an original idea for a character, would have had a great arc if done properly with her potentially dying of old age by the end of the series.

I think her best use was in Cold Fire, I wish they'd made a bit more of that episode really, after everyone was waiting for the 2nd caretaker to make an appearance it felt a bit like, 'is that it?...'
I couldn't agree more.
__________________
"High Priestesses Of Zardoz" By Eliza's Starbase Of Avatars Copyright 2009."
"Zardoz Speaks To You, His Choosen Trek Fans."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-17-2009, 04:32 AM
janeway72's Avatar
janeway72 janeway72 is offline
Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Federation Starship Voyager
Posts: 4,977
Default

I don't quite see why they couldn't have kept Kes and introduced Seven. Apart from budgetary restraints
__________________

"Unless you have something a little bigger in your torpedo tubes, I'm not turning around!"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-17-2009, 06:14 AM
jla1987's Avatar
jla1987 jla1987 is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I prefer Kes because she is cute, innocent, warm and friendly (especially to "lower lifeforms" like the Doctor) and, last but not least, curious and eager to learn. She is THE Trek character who made the words "explore strange new worlds ..." her own.

I agree that Seven brought more conflict into the show but at the same time she dominated the show too much alongside Janeway and many stories became a bit too blunt, direct-in-your-face-like, compared to the quieter influence of Kes.
So the Janeway-Seven-show point shows that Kes wasn't the only characters who was badly or underused.
I agree with your assessment. I think the Doctor also had too many blunt, direct-in-you-face-like episodes as well, especially after Kes' departure. Led to the stagnation of the series IMO.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-17-2009, 08:56 AM
chator's Avatar
chator chator is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by janeway72 View Post
I don't quite see why they couldn't have kept Kes and introduced Seven. Apart from budgetary restraints
2 pretty young blondes on the same show? Actually, i think if Kes had been human, she could have been Seven's best teacher.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-17-2009, 09:27 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I prefer Kes because she is cute, innocent, warm and friendly (especially to "lower lifeforms" like the Doctor) and, last but not least, curious and eager to learn. She is THE Trek character who made the words "explore strange new worlds ..." her own.

I agree that Seven brought more conflict into the show but at the same time she dominated the show too much alongside Janeway and many stories became a bit too blunt, direct-in-your-face-like, compared to the quieter influence of Kes.
So the Janeway-Seven-show point shows that Kes wasn't the only characters who was badly or underused.
I did miss Jennifer Lien as an actress on the show. I had always felt that she was among the better actors in the early days of VOY and her relationship with the Doctor was quite engaging.

Moving on -

Lien didn't have T&A and Jeri Ryan did, so they dumped her in favour of somebody they could use to sell magazine covers and promote the show with to hormonal guys - and it worked.

Fortunately Ryan herself is a good enough actress to work within those paramenters until they gave her things to do on the show - as has been well pointed out by others. Not that I ever particularly cared about Seven much, but she had her moments.

However, the saturation of her within the show was a problem. She did come to dominate and just wasn't compelling enough to warrant it.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-17-2009, 10:36 AM
chator's Avatar
chator chator is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
I did miss Jennifer Lien as an actress on the show. I had always felt that she was among the better actors in the early days of VOY and her relationship with the Doctor was quite engaging.

Lien didn't have T&A and Jeri Ryan did, so they dumped her in favour of somebody they could use to sell magazine covers and promote the show with to hormonal guys - and it worked.



Well, i guess you're right about the T&A male fantasy thing. But i agree with Horatio that she brought soul to the show. She was the most relateable of the cast. She had the sense of wonder and awe of a child, the eagerness to learn and contribute of the student, the heart and maturnal instinct of a young girl. Seven didn't have any of this, Ryan played Seven like a female Vulcan.

Last edited by chator : 11-17-2009 at 12:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-17-2009, 12:38 PM
Roysten's Avatar
Roysten Roysten is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 901
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chator View Post
Well, i guess you're right about the T&A male fantasy thing. But i agree with Horatio that she brought soul to the show. She was the most relateable of the cast. She had the sense of wonder and awe of a child, the eagerness to learn and contribute of the student, the heart and maturnal instinct of a young girl. Seven didn't have any of this, she played Seven like a female Vulcan.
On the T&A thing, Jeri Ryan undeniably fills that roll but I always thought Kes was one of the prettier characters in Star Trek, perhaps not oozing sex appeal like our favourite Borg but attractive in a more subtle understated way. She also had attainable appeal like Ezri that other trek ladies often didn't have.

I don't think Seven was like a Vulcan, she was very emotional and volatile, in someways more an immature child. I agree with you guys that she was often blunt and did become too much the focus of the show

Would have been interesting to see what may have happened if Kes had stayed on rather than Seven, the show definitely needed something at that point though, and Seven did fit the bill.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:46 AM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.