[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Livingston

I disagree. Once the fourth season was in full gear it had potential, problem was, it took four seasons to get to that point.

They could've easily moved into the Earth/Romulan War or the events that lead to the relations between the Federation and the Klingons during the 23rd century and all while doing so, showed how the Federation came to be. But waiting four seasons to do so is what killed the show because IMO that is the purpose of Enterprise, to show how Star Trek came to be. If they were going to just have a new crew take over the franchise why not move further into the future, out of TNG era and move forward? It's what Trek has always done, save the new movie. And even it fulfilled the purpose of a prequel, showed how things came to be, even if it was in an alternate universe.

I agree, but UPN was out to get this show canceled long before it was. I don't think Sci-Fi could have handled the costs of a show like ENT. You know Paramount would have never let them produce it under their flag like Stargate, ect.

I think UPN folding and the very early stages of talking about this film (Yes it was talked about back in 2004) was the death blow for this fine show.

I think this show was good from the start. Was every episode a winner? Heck no! No Trek show ever has all winners for episodes.

Was it "fanwanky?" Yes, but again all the Trek shows and movies have been to a certain degree. ENT had a hard time dancing aroudn so much established stuff in Trek while trying to be it's own show. Overall it did good, there was no way it would ever be perfect.

ENT overall worked.

[horatio]

The first season of TNG, DS9 and VOY were not very memorable but all of their second seasons very pretty good IMO whereas ENT did not really get better in its second season.

But the main themes were running through the show since the very beginning: character development, especially the trust and respect that Archer and T'Pol develop for each other which was continued on a larger scale with Maxwell and Soval, with humans and Vulcans in Forge/Awakening/Kir'Shara ... and the troublesome relations with the Andorians which lead into the prelude to the Earth-Romulan War in the fourth season. Or in other terms, how very different people with different goals learn to trust each other and get along. Sounds pretty Trekkish to me.

It is hardly a coincidence that they put it the show in the 2150s, they have worked since the very beginning towards the big historical events of that time period, the war and foundation of the Federation.

The only structural error they did IMO was the third season, such an arc would have come later anyway with the Earth-Romulan War, but it was a studio decision and not favoured by B&B.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by horatio

The first season of TNG, DS9 and VOY were not very memorable but all of their second seasons very pretty good IMO whereas ENT did not really get better in its second season.

But the main themes were running through the show since the very beginning: character development, especially the trust and respect that Archer and T'Pol develop for each other which was continued on a larger scale with Maxwell and Soval, with humans and Vulcans in Forge/Awakening/Kir'Shara ... and the troublesome relations with the Andorians which lead into the prelude to the Earth-Romulan War in the fourth season. Or in other terms, how very different people with different goals learn to trust each other and get along. Sounds pretty Trekkish to me.

It is hardly a coincidence that they put it the show in the 2150s, they have worked since the very beginning towards the big historical events of that time period, the war and foundation of the Federation.

The only structural error they did IMO was the third season, such an arc would have come later anyway with the Earth-Romulan War, but it was a studio decision and not favoured by B&B.

We could argue that the first 2 seasons of TNG, DS9, and VOY were pretty forgettable.

Using that as a basis, ENT fit right into the mold.

TOS, unlike those shows started out strong, and got progessively weaker.

[horatio]

I disagree.

Most people like TNG from the third season onward but I like the second season for "lonely out there exploring the unknown" episodes like Where Silence Has Lease or Time Squared or the slightly surrealistic The Royale.
Similar with DS9, like in TNG more plot-driven shows emerged in the third season but the second season features some wonderful episodes about the Bajoran-Cardassian part of the show which got a bit lost in later seasons.
VOY is a bit harder, but IMO the third season is not better than the second. The show became a bit darker in the 'Nekrit Expanse' part of the third season, but I don't think that the episodes became better (or worse) on average because of this.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by horatio

I disagree.

Most people like TNG from the third season onward but I like the second season for "lonely out there exploring the unknown" episodes like Where Silence Has Lease or Time Squared or the slightly surrealistic The Royale.
Similar with DS9, like in TNG more plot-driven shows emerged in the third season but the second season features some wonderful episodes about the Bajoran-Cardassian part of the show which got a bit lost in later seasons.
VOY is a bit harder, but IMO the third season is not better than the second. The show became a bit darker in the 'Nekrit Expanse' part of the third season, but I don't think that the episodes became better (or worse) on average because of this.

The series in question did have good individual episodes in that range, few as they were, but they were overall inferior to what came later in their respective runs.

VOY in season 3 for me is where the crew finally got cohesive, and lost the Maquis angle (it was a weak idea to begin with.)

[horatio]

Well, the Maquis was rather a good idea badly executed IMO, more conflict aboard might have been interesting. But the Kazon were good riddance.

Did you prefer the third season of the three series because the stories became more plot-driven, more epic?

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by horatio

Well, the Maquis was rather a good idea badly executed IMO, more conflict aboard might have been interesting. But the Kazon were good riddance.

Did you prefer the third season of the three series because the stories became more plot-driven, more epic?

Kazon....what were they thinking?

The epicness of VOY in it's thrid season was more of a draw. Juts like DS9 and TNG in their respective 3rd seasons.

[celticarchie]

They could've have made it for syndication like they did TNG with.

Having it on network means you've got an extra boss who doesn't get it.

[Commodore]

First-run syndication isn't what it used to be when TNG and DS9 were on the air. It's shrunk dramatically. The market is currently flooded with tons of informercials, reality show repeats, and repeats of shows from the major broadcast and cable networks, IMO (although Legend of the Seeker is making something of a minor resurgence in it).

[celticarchie]

Kill the network boss then