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  #11  
Old 08-23-2009, 12:55 AM
Futureguy Futureguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
Oh absolutely, I think that the cause and effect thing in relation to the way that things unfold is important. Just not the specific dates. The way I like to look at it, Khan hasn't happened yet. Maybe that is right around the corner. To me it makes more sense in the big picture to look at it that way, rather than to try and put a round peg in a square hole and say these things happened in the 90's, and we didn't see them. If that pushes back some of the other dates so be it.

All of the dates we are familliar with could easily be skewed to correct the lag in events. No progressive manned planetary space program, no WWIII (yet), no Khan-person (yet). I see the key to most of this is in relation to our perceived sequence of important events in ST is that there is a resumption of some serious human spaceflight in our "reality" and hopefully no WWIII or Khan happening to slow things down. Then we will start to see some approach to the bigger picture of Star Trek.
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
Oh absolutely, I think that the cause and effect thing in relation to the way that things unfold is important. Just not the specific dates. The way I like to look at it, Khan hasn't happened yet. Maybe that is right around the corner. To me it makes more sense in the big picture to look at it that way, rather than to try and put a round peg in a square hole and say these things happened in the 90's, and we didn't see them. If that pushes back some of the other dates so be it.

So all of the things that happened still happened in relation to each other, just maybe if Khan left Earth in the early 21st century, maybe the Romulan war happened closer to the end of the 22nd century. Everything just gets pushed back a bit, but the overall story is the same.
Precisely, setting the Eugenics Wars into the 90s in a show that was produced during the 60s translates into "the not too distant future".
The basic idea behind all that "pre-history" of Trek seems to be that humankind might go through hell before things start to improve, a pretty natural idea during the Cold War.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:02 AM
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Precisely, setting the Eugenics Wars into the 90s in a show that was produced during the 60s translates into "the not too distant future".
The basic idea behind all that "pre-history" of Trek seems to be that humankind might go through hell before things start to improve, a pretty natural idea during the Cold War.

The cold war though did serve its purpose for getting us to the moon but then stalling out a program to follow up with more ambitious manned space projects. Even the type and number of "probes" sent out has been less than could have been.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Futureguy View Post
All of the dates we are familliar with could easily be skewed to correct the lag in events. No progressive manned planetary space program, no WWIII (yet), no Khan-person (yet). I see the key to most of this is in relation to our perceived sequence of important events in ST is that there is a resumption of some serious human spaceflight in our "reality" and hopefully no WWIII or Khan happening to slow things down. Then we will start to see some approach to the bigger picture of Star Trek.
Yep, watching an episode like Space Seed takes on a lot more weight if you look at these things as yet to come. The Eugenics wars must have been horrific, an entire restructuring of world power, millions of deaths. A look at things to come? Probably not, but the story takes on more weight that way.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
Precisely, setting the Eugenics Wars into the 90s in a show that was produced during the 60s translates into "the not too distant future".
The basic idea behind all that "pre-history" of Trek seems to be that humankind might go through hell before things start to improve, a pretty natural idea during the Cold War.
Exactly, the story makes more sense if you just look at it the way it was intended when first written in the 60's, as the not so distant future.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:15 AM
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If you have some time (if not, just skim through)... please read this: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in...tory-earth.htm

I would like to hear some thoughts on the timeline of the Trek universe regarding Khan and the Eugenics Wars. I generally tend to think that the Eugenics Wars took place in the 1990's, but some do not. Anybody here think that the Eugenics Wars and WWIII were, somehow, the same war?
I never took them to be - the Eugenics wars were clearly supposed to have taken plave in the 1990s (Space Seed) and World War III was clearly set in the early to mid 21st Century (Encounter at Farpoint, First Contact).

It's just the problem of creating 'Future History' in a TV show.

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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
Exactly, the story makes more sense if you just look at it the way it was intended when first written in the 60's, as the not so distant future.
You can argue all of Prime universe Star Trek is an alternate universe even before the new film came along to rationalise it if one chooses to.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:19 AM
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Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels found a tidy solution to the problem of the 1990s: the Eugenics Wars 'actually' happened, but no-one knew it at the time. Sure, we all saw the wars and knew which nations were fighting which other nations, and we knew which countries were riven by internal strife - but no-one knew that the strings were actually being pulled by the genetically-engineered superhumans. They were fighting against the rest of humanity, and against each other, and were completely willing to work from the shadows, using innocent populations as tools in their struggles. In that version of history, they had access to the fruits of their superior intellects - technology and such - which was denied to the rest of the world, but also had to contend with Gary Seven who, despite being a little older, was still hard at work protecting humanity from itself. At the end of the story, the survivng superhumans are given the option of fleeing aboard the Botany Bay, which is secretly under construction in New Mexico - and is based on reverse-engineered technology from a certain Ferengi shuttle that visited in 1947.
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Old 08-23-2009, 02:22 AM
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Is that not slightly at odds with some 'Space Seed' dialogue that Khan was the acknowledged ruler of a quarter of the Earth before he was sent packing?
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  #20  
Old 08-23-2009, 03:10 AM
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But don't you think we would have noticed the Eugenics wars?
Now that you mention it, I never noticed reports about that Saturn V nuclear rocket...
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